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Thread: Supplementing SWG...questions

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    Hemess's Avatar
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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    I have been worried about my SWG all season. It will barely make chlorine, as I can't get my levels over 1 or 2 and it used to be in the 5 to 7 range, no fail, until this season (3rd season, Pentair IntelliChlor IC40).

    My thoughts are to replace the cell at the beginning of the season next year, as I only have until mid Oct. until the water temp falls below the needed operating temp to generate chlorine.

    I have always supplemented with chlorine pucks during the winter as I don't close the pool and we use the attached spa.

    When I went to pool store Friday, they said my CYA was 100 (when I tested before I went in to store it was around 40), which blew my mind as I couldn't imagine how it got so high as I had only added burnout 70 (or 73) two weeks ago...I just retested today and it is still 40. I had planned to buy stabilizer when I went in there Friday until I had been told it was 100. I think they confused my sample with someone else's sample.

    So...either my SWG isn't working or my stabilizer is low....or do you think things are working and I am on the verge of a BLOOM, which makes it appear my SWG ISNT WORKING.

    FC 1
    CC 1
    TC 2
    PH 8.0 plus (2 drops will bring it to 7.6, so I need to add 1.5 qts MA)
    TA 80
    CYA 40

    I was beginning to think I should just supplement with leach since I had thought my CYA was so high.... I don't have a FAS-DPD (I know, slap my hand)....so I didn't know that I would be able to SLAM...

    OK...DONE RAMBLING, WHAT ADVICE DO YOU ALL HAVE FOR ME?!?


    28,000 gallon, gunite, SWG, Pentair filter, attached spa
    28,000 IG, gunite, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG with SPA,
    Intellichlor/VS Pentair
    Norman, OK

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    Ksnewman's Avatar
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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    What percentage are you running your SWG and what is your pump time, water temp? I have found that I have to adjust periodically in order to maintain. Cell need cleaning? Also, if you have a good test kit at home, I would just use that and not pool store. I have never taken water to be tested and I keep my own test results in a log. I really didn't want them messing with my head! With a CC of 1, maybe something living in there?
    Based on pool school anything over .5 might be a problem. From my understanding (albeit limited) the SWG may not be able to keep up if algae. Have you tried OCLT?
    18x36 kidney 20,000 gallons IG vinyl. Pentair Easy Touch 8 w/IntelliChlor IC40. Triton II TR100. Pentair Intellifllo Variable Speed. Waterfall/Jump Rock. 2 Pentair Intellibrite lights. TF-100 Test Kit. And a very happy husband who gets to play in the pool without having to take care of it.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    What test kit are you using now ? You need to get one of these Test Kits. Don't trust the pool store testing on your CYA level. They are really bad at that test.
    For a SWG your CYA level should be 70-80. That gives you more protection from the sun. That's one reason your having problems getting your FC levels up. You can supplement your SWG with bleach. Target 7ppm FC for your CYA level of 40 until you get your CYA level up.
    With the CC of 1 you should SLAM the pool. How does your water look ? Cloudy, visible algae ? If it's clear and no visible algae, bringing your FC up to shock level of 16 should take care of the CC's.
    SLAM Process.
    An OCLT Test will determine if you have organics consuming your chlorine. Bring your FC up to shock level for it with bleach. That will also help with the CC of 1. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Hemess's Avatar
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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    I have not done an OCLT.

    I have a Taylor (marketed by Leslie's) that might be called #81-330. It has everything except the FAS-DPD, it only has DPD. Going to buy the FAS-DPD...and the swirl machine.

    My SWG is running at 100% and I just increased running time from 10 hours to 19 hours yesterday.

    I used the PoolMath calculator and it said I needed a ton (800 oz of 8.25 bleach). Fortunately I only put in 1 gallon, as now my FC is at 5.... So glad I didn't dump all 6 gallons in. I just went back to the calculator and it is saying I would have needed 127 oz...

    I guess I am trying to figure out if this is algae causing my SWG to be weird, or if it is really on the brink.

    I am guessing I won't really know unless I SLAM, and I will need the FAS-DPD test to do that accurately.


    28,000 gallon, gunite, SWG, Pentair filter, attached spa
    28,000 IG, gunite, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG with SPA,
    Intellichlor/VS Pentair
    Norman, OK

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    Hemess's Avatar
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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    Water looks really good, clear...pretty. But I have been watching it like a hawk...something isn't right.


    28,000 gallon, gunite, SWG, Pentair filter, attached spa
    28,000 IG, gunite, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG with SPA,
    Intellichlor/VS Pentair
    Norman, OK

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Yep order the FAS-DPD test.
    Don't raise your CYA level up until you get rid of the CC's or if you need to SLAM the pool. You can turn the SWG off and use bleach to you get things worked out. Then get your CYA level up to 70-80 and fire the SWG up and see if it's ok or if the cell needs replaced. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Can I ask how you are measuring your CYA? Are you using the melamine turbidity test?

    If not, then you have no accurate measure of CYA. I too have an IntelliChlor SWG and if your pool water CYA is above 100ppm, you're IC40 is not going to keep up.

    Back in May, my pool CYA was above 150ppm and my IC40 couldn't break 1ppm even when run at 100% for 12hours. I was on the verge of an algae bloom. I replaced half my water, got my CYA down to 70ppm, SLAMed and have had beautiful water ever since.

    You're real problem is this - you have to get a good test kit (Leslie's does not sell it) and do your own water testing, you have to stop using ALL forms of solid chlorine and you need to stop listening to anything the pool store tells you. Then, once you've balanced your water, according to the TFPC Method, you will be able to maintain your pool using nothing more than your SWG and little bit of bleach on occasion.



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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    Hey sunny did you see the kit he is using ?
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    Hey sunny did you see the kit he is using ?
    The Taylor kits marketed by Leslie's are DPD only tests and they can not read over 5ppm FC typically. The FC/CC numbers as well as accurate CYA are the most important things to measure at this point.

    The OP needs to get a Taylor K-2006C (via Amazon) or a TF-100 with XL option (TFTestKits.net). I was in exactly the same situation as the OP a few months back and it wasn't until my Taylor kit arrived that I was able to get my pool under control.

    Sorry if my post sounded brusque, but the only way to get good results from the TFPC method is to really just rely on your own test result numbers (which means owning a good test kit with fresh reagents) and completely cutting the pool stores out of the equation. As well, there are only very limited circumstances where you want to use solid forms of chlorine on a regular basis, especially if the pool has an SWG. The only thing I have ever used my TriChlor tabs for is to raise CYA when it got low. As soon as I finish my bucket, I intend to get liquid stabilizer and use that as-needed.



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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Why won't his kit test CYA accurately ? It's a Taylor kit. He just needs the FAS/DPD reagents to add to what he has.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    Why won't his kit test CYA accurately ? It's a Taylor kit. He just needs the FAS/DPD kit.
    Ok. I see according to Leslie's website it's a K2005.

    So DPD only, CYA is ok.

    I'd still double check that CYA number and even try to confirm with a dilution test. As I said, I was exactly in the same boat and my CYA was too high. It's easy to mess that CYA test up and reagents can go bad, so I'd confirm reagents are good too.



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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    His testing of CYA he got 40. The store got 100. I suggested to go with his testing and not trust the store testing.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    His testing of CYA he got 40. The store got 100. I suggested to go with his testing and not trust the store testing.
    Agreed. But I would double check my results as well. Also check reagent ages. In order for me to get confident in my CYA testing skills, I ordered a 50ppm CYA standard to "learn" how to do the test. I found that my eyes would read a lower value of CYA. I had to adjust my eye-sample distance and lighting to make the dot disappear at 50ppm. Plus the test is only good to +\- 10ppm.

    Using a two point testing method (normal sample and a diluted sample) is the best way to improve your chances of getting a good number but it uses twice as much reagent.



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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Can we also get a CH number?

    Considering the first tests high pH, a high CH could mean scaling on the SWG.

    Also, can you check the SWGs runtime (procedure is in Pentair IC40 instruction manual). Cells are designed for a 10,000 hour operating life but typically don't ever get that factory value. If your close to 8,000 then I'd say you're getting close to EOL (end of life).



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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    we just replaced all our IC40s to IC60s and do so routinely every 3 years to keep a new warranty in place with Pentair.

    what steps have you taken to diagnose the life of the cell as they are outlined in the owners manual, also online and you can also disconnect the cell and submerge it in a bucket of water and manually depress the flow switch to see if it works at all

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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    He is a she (lol...initials and part last name).

    I think my test kit was fresh, but I have almost used all my CYA, so I will order more with my FAS-DPD order after payday Wednesday.

    I will also check out the cell life this weekend.

    Today I was thrilled to come home and test my water and still have chlorine at 5....awe....finally.

    Someone asked me the other day what my hobbies were and I was stumped...I couldn't name any. Then this weekend I realized this pool is pretty much my hobby/obsession. Yikes.

    The thrill of balanced water is addicting!

    I had huge scaling over late winter and early spring so I have diligently watched PH since. Cleaned my cell in the midst of the scaling and it was relatively clean then.

    I will check my calcium hardness tomorrow. I forgot to record it yesterday and I have no long term memory! Lol
    28,000 IG, gunite, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG with SPA,
    Intellichlor/VS Pentair
    Norman, OK

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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    Sorry about the He thing. Should have said OP. My bad !
    Did you test CC ? At least you have FC now.
    When you get some fresh CYA reagent retest and post. I trust your testing. If you keep your test kit in a cool dark place your reagents will last for a year or more. I know my CYA reagent is over a year old and it's still good. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Hemess's Avatar
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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    My FC 5 and TC was 5...but that was matching pinks....sometimes it is hard to differentiate the pinks, and I am not color blind.

    I am not offended by the "he," I always find it humorous because that has been my user names for YEARS, but I am one proud female who does 100% of the pool upkeep. MY HOBBY 😁.
    28,000 IG, gunite, IntelliChlor IC40 SWG with SPA,
    Intellichlor/VS Pentair
    Norman, OK

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    Supplementing SWG...questions

    You'll get a better handle on things when you get the FAS/DPD reagents.
    I think that's great your handling all the pool stuff. Good job ! 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Supplementing SWG...questions

    My Hayward cell looked clean this summer but production had decreased. I cleaned it with a MA solution and it was back mostly to like new. Might not hurt to clean it again.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
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