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Thread: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

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    New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Can I set the variable speed pump to 1000 rpm and have it run 24/7 (or maybe 20 hours, 7 days a week) even though the skimmer doesn't seem to work at that speed?
    I currently have it running at 1700 RPM for 8 hours (1a-9a). The solar blanket is on when we aren't swimming so I'm not sure if this skimming action is even worth it. Will I run into problems with the motor if I never turn it off? The filter still does its job at 1000 RPM and the water is still circulated, right?

    Basically any downside to not caring if the top skimmer doesn't "work" at certain rpm? Everything I read states lower the rpm to the point where the skimmer still works and then trial and error on duration of running pump. I want to know if I can just ignore the first part and just see how long I have to run the pump at 1000 rpm.
    ~35,000 gallon in-ground pool and ~750 gallon spa
    Jandy ePump, Jandy CV460 Filter, Jandy LXI400 Heater
    Hayward TigerShark robot, Rocky's Reel System and solar blanket

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Should be no problem. 1000 rpm is the most cost effective speed. I run mine at a high speed in the am to clean the pool, then at a mid speed for a few hours, then drop it to 1000 rpm until 2am.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Suzieq, your skimmer is working. There is some going on at 1000 RPM. Just may not look like it. Obvoiusly it wont be as noticeable at higher RPM. If your water level were a bit lower, you could see it.

    If the skimmer wasnt skimming, water wouldnt be pulled in, and the pump would cavitate.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    peterdaly's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Your filter may require a minimum flow rate. Without a flow meter it's hard to know where you are at, but if it seems the filter may not be working, you may need to up the speed.
    Fayetteville, NY -17K gal, IG vinyl, Hayward SP2300VSP Max-Flo Variable Speed Pump, FlowVis Flow Meter, Sand filter
    Self designed Arduino powered automation for pump and solar control, Solar Attic Pool Heater, AutoPilot Digital SWG, TF100

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    No filter that I know of has a minimum flow rate spec. However, they all have maximum (sometimes called recommended) flow rate specs.

    Anyway as for 1000 RPM, check the weir door and see if the water is going over the top of the weir rather than through the sides. Sometimes the flow rate is not enough to lower the weir door so the water gets through the sides but it isn't really skimming because the debris can't get over the top of the door. If this is the case, there are some mods you can make so the door drops on lower flow rates.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    My sand filter lists minimal flow rate (25gpm) right on the model/specs label.
    Fayetteville, NY -17K gal, IG vinyl, Hayward SP2300VSP Max-Flo Variable Speed Pump, FlowVis Flow Meter, Sand filter
    Self designed Arduino powered automation for pump and solar control, Solar Attic Pool Heater, AutoPilot Digital SWG, TF100

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    I have never seen that on filter. What is the make/model#? Filters generally will work better the lower the flow rate.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Waterway...not sure model...not going out to check...standard unit my PB uses.

    Anyway, let's get this thread back on topic. Some filters have minimum flow rate. It's worth checking if that may or may not be a concern for yours.
    Fayetteville, NY -17K gal, IG vinyl, Hayward SP2300VSP Max-Flo Variable Speed Pump, FlowVis Flow Meter, Sand filter
    Self designed Arduino powered automation for pump and solar control, Solar Attic Pool Heater, AutoPilot Digital SWG, TF100

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Waterway filters are all listed here: http://www.waterwayplastics.com/prod...ilter-systems/

    They all show maximum flow rate and none have a minimum. Even if it is listed on yours, I don't believe it has any meaning and it is nothing to be concerned with.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    I checked and yes the water is going over the top of the weir rather than through the sides even with the solar blanket on at 1100 rpm (could bring myself to go down to 1000 rpm). I have set it to run for 20 hours every day.

    Out of curiosity what is the point of "high speed in the am to clean the pool, then at a mid speed for a few hours, then drop it to 1000 rpm until 2am"?

    High speed to clean the pool? Do you mean to skim the debris off the top? With my solar blanket this seems like would not help me. Right?
    Mid speed for few hours, why?
    ~35,000 gallon in-ground pool and ~750 gallon spa
    Jandy ePump, Jandy CV460 Filter, Jandy LXI400 Heater
    Hayward TigerShark robot, Rocky's Reel System and solar blanket

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Out of curiosity what is the point of "high speed in the am to clean the pool, then at a mid speed for a few hours, then drop it to 1000 rpm until 2am"?
    Most pools don't really need that much run time so I would ignore that.


    High speed to clean the pool? Do you mean to skim the debris off the top? With my solar blanket this seems like would not help me. Right?
    Mid speed for few hours, why?
    Correct, because you have a solar blanket, high speed run time would be a waste unless the blanket is off. There is probably no need to fix the weir either because the low speed run time isn't skimming either.

    So if you run with a pool cover on most of the time, the only things you need to be concerned with is chlorination. BTW, how do you chlorinate? If manually, then technically, you only need about 2 hours per day of run time when you add the chlorine.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    I have an in-floor system that requires the higher speed to operate properly. Any pool cleaner (except robots or those with a booster pump) will also require a relatively high speed setting. The mid speed (in the 1500 range) is for my SWG's flow switch, to be sure my pool is chlorinated during mid day. Then SWG off and down to 1000 rpm until 2 am.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    I'm running both my swg and boost pump at the same time @1500 RPM. Getting skimmimg, floor cleaning and FC generation all at once! So far it's working great!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Correct, because you have a solar blanket, high speed run time would be a waste unless the blanket is off. There is probably no need to fix the weir either because the low speed run time isn't skimming either.

    So if you run with a pool cover on most of the time, the only things you need to be concerned with is chlorination. BTW, how do you chlorinate? If manually, then technically, you only need about 2 hours per day of run time when you add the chlorine.
    Yes we run with the pool cover on most of the time (only off to swim). Robot to clean the pool. I keep 2 pool floats with dissolving chlorine tabs (blasphemy, I know) and then check the Cl levels every 2-3 days and add bleach as needed. Seems to work ok for me (turned green on me one time for a variety of reasons) and my CYA level is around 50 from the tabs (I actually had to add CYA at the beginning of the season because it was 0).

    With this setup are you suggesting that I only run my pump for 2 hours (down from the 20 now) a day at 1100 rpm after I add bleach? If I left the pool cover off (seems to prevent a lot of evaporation is the main reason I leave on), then the only purpose of the pump & filter would be to skim the top of the pool and distribute any bleach I add?
    ~35,000 gallon in-ground pool and ~750 gallon spa
    Jandy ePump, Jandy CV460 Filter, Jandy LXI400 Heater
    Hayward TigerShark robot, Rocky's Reel System and solar blanket

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Run time is basically for three things.

    1) Distribution of chlorine (studies have shown that this can happen in 2 hours or less)

    2) Skimming (not required because of pool cover)

    3) Floor cleaning (not required because you have a robot)

    So given that you only have the 1st requirement, it is possible that you could drop the run time down to a couple of hours but you might need to experiment. But I can tell you that there is probably no need for 20 hours, or even 10 hours. If you can set up the pump to run twice a day at 2 hours each, see how that goes.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Not to quibble, but run time is also for filtration of the water, otherwise there wouldn't be a pool filter in the system. The primary advantage of the VS pump is that you can run it longer at slower speeds (which provides for better filtration).

    My VS pump running at 1,000rpm draws roughly the same current as a single 100 watt light bulb. Reducing run time to save money isn't a very big issue with a VS pump. Reducing the speed of the pump (or the amount of time it is run at higher speeds) is where the savings come. Filtration still requires a reasonable turnover rate, and the greater the turnover the better the water clarity. That's why my new VS pump is running many more hours than my old pump ran.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    Not to quibble, but run time is also for filtration of the water, otherwise there wouldn't be a pool filter in the system. The primary advantage of the VS pump is that you can run it longer at slower speeds (which provides for better filtration).

    My VS pump running at 1,000rpm draws roughly the same current as a single 100 watt light bulb. Reducing run time to save money isn't a very big issue with a VS pump. Reducing the speed of the pump (or the amount of time it is run at higher speeds) is where the savings come. Filtration still requires a reasonable turnover rate, and the greater the turnover the better the water clarity. That's why my new VS pump is running many more hours than my old pump ran.
    Sorry but that is not what studies have shown (see sig) and not what many members on this forum have experienced.

    Filtration is primarily to remove the debris that the skimmers and floor cleaners collect. In order for particles to become permanently suspended in water (i.e. colloids), they must be smaller than about 1 micron (ref). Since a DE filter can only filter out particles down to about 5 micron, these smaller suspended particles won't be filter out. Anything bigger than 1 microns will tend to sink to the pool floor where pool cleaner will pick it up and anything that floats will be taken out by the skimmer. A DE can go down to about 5 microns so that works on most things that sink or float but anything suspended will go through through anyway.

    So the concept of turnover and filtering water is somewhat outdated and unnecessary. If you keep the chlorine distributed, surface clean and the floor clean, that is pretty much all you need to do. Anymore run time than is needed for those things is a waste of energy. You are not accomplishing anything. If you still don't believe me despite all the evidence, then reduce your run time and see if you actually notice anything different. If your pool is properly maintained, you shouldn't notice any difference.

    I know this goes against everything you've probably read on the web about turnover and filtering but the science is pretty solid on this topic.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: New Pool Owner and New VS Pump

    From my experience adding a VS pump, I do know what increasing my run time did. I thought my water was clear before I put in the pump and increased my run time, but the extended run time has made a significant difference in water clarity.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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