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Thread: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

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    Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    So when when my wife and I set down with our current pool builder to discuss price and layout, we were told that we needed 2 wing walls totaling 30 ft and a section of our pool had to be built double thick to support it's own weight. We were charged $8000.00 for this. The reason for needing this was due to the slope of our lot (per the sales person). We were told the wing walls would be connected to the pool and it would all get shot at the same time.

    Well once the pool was escalated and the re-bar was install we saw no signs of wing walls or any additional re-bar for this EXPOSED BEAM ENGINEERED WALL. I asked the crew what was going on with it and was told it wasn't needed due them pulling enough dirt out to build up the side of the pool. When I brought it up to my pool builder I was told we would receive a credit. So over the course of the last 4 weeks I have asked about this credit several times and have been told we will figure it all out later.

    Well today I demand to get some numbers in writing. I had already payed out 22k and the builder was asking for another check for 22k. I figured its time to get this worked out as we are getting close to the full balance and I don't want issues. Well the PB came back with a credit of 1200.00 and I about lost it. They are claiming that I will only receive credit for the wing walls and that that special care went into the escalation of the pool and that's considered engineering. I paid them 14k today and I'm not paying another dime till I get my 8k credit. So at this point I have paid 34k of 48k (48 is what I feel I owe after the credit of 8k) and we still have coping, tile, plaster, and decking left. Please take a look at the pics and tell me what you think.
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    Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    .......
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    Did you get a building permit based on plans and engineering drawings? Do you have engineering plans or is the PB just figuring this off the cuff?

    So it appears that the PB didn't build what the plan calls for. Now if I were the judge I wouldn't give the PB a dime until he built what the plans called for. But the real world has mechanic's liens and such. I would ask the PB to show you that the pool as built is just the same as the pool on the plans. If he can't then he should build what is on the plans. He needs the written change order not you.

    Anyway you are probably going to have to compromise somewhere.

    I might also complain to the Georgia agency that licenses contractors.

    It looks to me like he is trying to get out of building two retaining walls and a pool wall and just using dirt. That may be fine but its all fill and you need to be sure it has the same strength as the walls shown on the plans.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    Did you get a building permit based on plans and engineering drawings? Do you have engineering plans or is the PB just figuring this off the cuff?

    So it appears that the PB didn't build what the plan calls for. Now if I were the judge I wouldn't give the PB a dime until he built what the plans called for. But the real world has mechanic's liens and such. I would ask the PB to show you that the pool as built is just the same as the pool on the plans. If he can't then he should build what is on the plans. He needs the written change order not you.

    Anyway you are probably going to have to compromise somewhere.

    I might also complain to the Georgia agency that licenses contractors.

    It looks to me like he is trying to get out of building two retaining walls and a pool wall and just using dirt. That may be fine but its all fill and you need to be sure it has the same strength as the walls shown on the plans.
    couldn't have said it better.

    What is in the contract, is it line itemized? post a copy if you feel comfortable.

    I think you made the right move, don't pay a dime until it is in writing. With just what you told us above, sounds like he was trying to pocket an extra $8k in profit.

    If he threatens to walk, or lien, or attorney BS.....tell him to pound sand and finish the pool yourself. Good luck
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    post a copy if you feel comfortable.
    That is fine if you wish to do so, as long as there is no information pointing to or identifying the builder or anyone else (involved in the project).

    Anyway, for my 2cents, I think you made the right call, too.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    What does your contract say regarding the scope of work?
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    IMO that rear side of the pool where the dirt is used in place of the retaining wall is not acceptable. Something will need to be done to keep that dirt from sliding out and washing away. Can you get pictures from that side of the pool and from ground level looking back towards the pool so we can get a better idea of the whole setup.

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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    The contract states wing walls provided by pool company and states to refer to plan drawing. The contract also notes that the rear pool wall will be engineered to be self standing and have an exposed bond beam. My main issue is that I now have to pay for a separate retaining wall to be built due to them not putting the wing walls in. The construction crew has even express concerns over the lack of a wall.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sims1dh View Post
    The contract states wing walls provided by pool company and states to refer to plan drawing. The contract also notes that the rear pool wall will be engineered to be self standing and have an exposed bond beam. My main issue is that I now have to pay for a separate retaining wall to be built due to them not putting the wing walls in. The construction crew has even express concerns over the lack of a wall.
    They should have gone over this with you rather than omitting the wall without consulting you.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    What is the cost of the wall? If it's near the cost of what they didn't do, per contract, perhaps they should make it right by doing the wall?
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    What is the cost of the wall? If it's near the cost of what they didn't do, per contract, perhaps they should make it right by doing the wall?
    The cost of the wall is 5800.00 and your suggestion is exactly what I was thinking. But the pool builder only wants to give me 1200.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The drawing called for 30 ft wall. Im not aware of any type of wall you can get for 1200.00.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sims1dh View Post
    The cost of the wall is 5800.00 and your suggestion is exactly what I was thinking. But the pool builder only wants to give me 1200.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The drawing called for 30 ft wall. Im not aware of any type of wall you can get for 1200.00.
    If he wants to be that way about it then I would make him do it per the contract.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiffeShooter View Post
    If he wants to be that way about it then I would make him do it per the contract.
    The issue is that his wall was to be shot all in one piece with the pool. For him to do it now would require drilling into the pool.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Wow, yeah you cannot just deviate from the specific pool plans that you agreed to...especially for a portion of the pool where you paid $8k extra. We have some retaining walls on our design, and I'd be livid if I came home to a "Yeah, we changed our mind on that." type of response, and then offer 15% refund on what you paid for it.

    Definitely hold his feet to the fire on this.

    Man, all of these pool builder problems lately with different threads make me really anxious to start our build in the next couple of weeks.

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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sims1dh View Post
    The issue is that his wall was to be shot all in one piece with the pool. For him to do it now would require drilling into the pool.
    Ahhhh, yes. I am not a concrete expert but in my mind it would certainly be stronger as one. I wonder if they could drill rebar into it and then add concrete. I just had kind of a similar issue on my build but not on your scale. We needed a footer built for the screen enclosure and the forms were built. I asked why they wouldn't pour that with the deck at the same time and I was told it didn't matter. That didn't make sense to me because (in my mind) surely it would be stronger as one unit. Fortunately the concrete was a pita to get delivered in my area and nobody showed on the day the footer was supposed to be poured. When all the stars aligned and the concrete was to be delivered, they took out the inside of the footer form and poured it all at once like I wanted them to.

    I wish you luck with this but I definitely would not take the $1200 credit. I would say either do it the right way or get a refund for most of the $5800 with a written guarantee that this portion of the build will never be an issue. Or they can still do a reinforcing wall but they would have to backfill it instead of it being exposed per the plans since it is not one complete structure. It sounds like the builder didn't inform the concrete crew or the concrete crew didn't look at the plans well enough. Someone dropped the ball.
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    Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    If the contract says wing wall then make him provide the wing wall. The reason you have a contract is to avoid scope disagreements. If he wants to change the contract he would need your approval in writing.

    Basically, if he does not provide what is in the contract, he is in breech. If you can't resolve it, I would tell him you are going to stop all work, not pay him, and have another pool contractor finish the work to spec and then go after him for any difference that it cost you.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    I might also complain to the Georgia agency that licenses contractors.
    Georgia doesn't issue licenses for swimming pool contractors because, well there isn't one.

    It can be built by anyone and their brother.

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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutral opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBfan187 View Post
    Georgia doesn't issue licenses for swimming pool contractors because, well there isn't one.

    It can be built by anyone and their brother.
    The city informed me that they have to have builders license. I found the license number on the permit.
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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Well there are some local law, but the state doesn't grant licenses for swimming pool contractors.

    http://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/SpecialtyLTD.pdf

    Outdoor Environment (pools)
    The following are allowable categories of work which may be completed or coordinated by an Outdoor Environment Limited Service Specialty Contractor:

    Minor Grading

    Erosion Control
    Retaining Walls
    Excavation
    Electrical Grounding, Lighting and Equipment
    Plumbing related to Pool Circulation and Drains
    Yard Drains
    Concrete Walls and Reinforcing Steel
    Shotcrete
    Pool
    Liners
    Masonry
    Concrete and Architectural Decks on Grade
    Pool Equipment
    Landscape and Irrigation
    Fencing
    Fireplaces
    Arbors
    Outdoor Kitchens
    Related Site Equipment

    You may be required to hold a contractor license if your company exceeds this scope of
    work.
    I'm in GA, I know what can be done. And it's pretty much a free for all when it comes to pools.

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    Re: Please help, having dispute with pool builder and I need a neutrall opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBfan187 View Post
    Well there are some local law, but the state doesn't grant licenses for swimming pool contractors.

    http://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/SpecialtyLTD.pdf



    I'm in GA, I know what can be done. And it's pretty much a free for all when it comes to pools.


    Not sure but my pb has a builders license that he used to pull the permit.
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