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Thread: Michael Assad from Canada

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    Michael Assad from Canada

    Hi All!

    I'm a big fan of ionizers, so I know I'll have a lot of fun on here

    Looking forward to meeting you!

    Cheers,
    Mike

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Assad View Post
    Hi All!

    I'm a big fan of ionizers, so I know I'll have a lot of fun on here

    Looking forward to meeting you!

    Cheers,
    Mike

    Welcome to TFP!

    Do you have US EPA registration numbers for any ionizers?

    Do you know how long it takes water treated with an ionizer to kill fecal coliform in the water compared to a chlorinated pool?
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    You can look up the EPA registration on the EPA site - they are there. Health Canada has one too which I know from first hand experience

    You absolutely cannot use an ionizer without chlorine. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're full of fecal coliform. You just don't need as much.

    EPA approves .5 ppm chlorine with an ionizer, vs. 1-3ppm without. That's a reduction of 50% - 90%.

    To each his/her own, but I prefer limiting my exposure to chlorine and CYA for that matter.

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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Have you read the responses to your other comments from Chem Geek?

    A FC level of 0.5ppm with no CYA is a much higher exposure to active chlorine than the higher FC/CYA levels that we recommend ... in fact at least 5 times a higher active chlorine exposure.
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Assad View Post
    You can look up the EPA registration on the EPA site - they are there.
    No they aren't. None. Not one.
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Have you read the responses to your other comments from Chem Geek?

    A FC level of 0.5ppm with no CYA is a much higher exposure to active chlorine than the higher FC/CYA levels that we recommend ... in fact at least 5 times a higher active chlorine exposure.
    He isn't talking about using no CYA, but rather using Trichlor pucks and a low FC target such as 0.5 ppm and using an algaecide, namely copper ions. You can read more of his comments and my responses starting in this post in another thread.
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Well, I think you will agree that one can not simply say "0.5ppm of FC with a dash of copper and you are good to go" ... we all know that the CYA is important to this story.
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    LOL ... what is hilarious is that I had that exact thing in my head when I wrote it
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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    LOL

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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
    No they aren't. None. Not one.
    Huh. There are a bunch in Canada. Normally, Canada is much more strict when it comes to these matters.

    http://pr-rp.hc-sc.gc.ca/ls-re/resul...rchexpdate=EXP

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    Re: Michael Assad from Canada

    The EPA is similar with regard to registered pesticide products added as chemicals, but they do not require registration of saltwater chlorine generators (though do require registration of the establishment/facility) and only more recently (since 2008) required registration of ionization systems (see this link and this link) though it is again primarily through registration of the establishment/facility. One can look up registered products or establishments in the PPIS system. You can see that Argenia Systems has an EPA establishment (company) number and there are no "products" because that database only lists chemical products, not devices manufactured by a company or at a facility.

    There is also separate 3rd party certification via NSF Standard 50 though that is optional and not required by law.

    However, the EPA only registers copper/silver ionization devices as producing a pesticide and that includes algaecides and that is not the same thing as passing EPA DIS/TSS-12 to be called a swimming pool disinfectant. So such copper/silver ionization systems cannot make any pesticidal claims such as "kills bacteria" unless used in conjunction with an EPA-approved disinfectant such as chlorine. It's only the copper/silver products or ionization companies that tout chlorine-free and make pesticidal claims that would be in violation of FIFRA rules. This happened with Pristine BlueŽ as I noted in this post and the one following it. They can only claim to "control algae and nonpublic health bacteria" and have to qualify with an asterisk as with "algicide and bactericide*" "*Nonpublic Health Bacteria" which reflects the fact that these products do not kill fecal bacteria (that is what is meant by public health bacteria).
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