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Thread: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

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    Catanzaro's Avatar
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    Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    I currently have the Frog system in where the Mineralizer is built in to the system with the chlorine back pack. I would like to get rid of the system but not ready to cut it out and would like to run the system empty. I just used the TF 100 for the first time in the afternoon and this morning went to another pool store to get the water tested and PH and CL are the same as the TF 100. I was also able to get a nice break on 12.5% liquid chlorine with a coupon and paid about $3.99 per gallon so I purchased a few gallons. My levels were .1 yesterday and I used the BBB method and within a day the levels were raised to 2 ppm. The water was cloudy this morning and I vacuumed the pool and now it looks crystal clear. Maybe algae was formed on the bottom of the pool and that is the reason why it was cloudy, not sure.

    So here are my questions:

    I know the CL level needs to be raised to 5 without the mineral system and bac-pac. How do I do this?

    Does it matter what minerals are in the pool and should I bring the level to 5 immediately or gradually bring up the level?

    Or should I continue to run the frog system with and empty out the bac pac, etc.

    With the TF-100 can I test for minerals, copper, etc? And if my levels are too high what do I do?

    Tomorrow I will test for TA, CH and CYA. Thank you.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    How do you know the FC needs to be 5ppm? The required level is a function of your CYA. See the FC/CYA Chart. You raise it by using PoolMath to calculate how much of the bleach you need to add.

    You should test for metals, like copper at the pool store. You either need to use a sequestrant to prevent staining, or replace water to get the metal out of your pool.

    Stop using the metal or the solid chlorine. The solid chlorine is adding CYA ... what is your level? Like I said before, that tells you the required FC level. I am guessing that the CYA may be too high which will required replacing water to lower it.

    How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    I have read everything in Pool School. Sorry was not too clear. I used the CYA level of 40 that was the last test on Sunday so the chart is showing me a 5. And I just used the TF 100 Test Kit and the CYA is showing 40 (so this has stayed the same). I have not used the solid chlorine. Based on my CYA I need to add 67 ounces of 8.25% bleach. I was really asking if the mineral system should be removed with the bac pac and just add the chlorine all at once and not worry about the metals or do the metals have to be taken care of first before I bring the levels up.

    What metals should I test for? If the pool store is not willing or can not does my TF 100 kit do this? Should I be ordering another kit, etc. I will return the liquid chlorine (have not used any of it). Once I get the results they will be posted. I will go purchase straight unscented bleach with a concentration of 8.25%. Hopefully Wal Mart or Target has it as Lowes and Costco do not carry it.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
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    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    The TF100 does not test metals. The metal tests are expensive. Have the store do it.

    You should remove the metal from the cartridges. Some people cut them open to remove the metal.

    Add all the FC you need.
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Thank you. I will have the store test for metals and then come back on how to get rid of them. I will remove the cartridge and bac pac and use liquid bleach, etc.

    Thank you.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    Thank you. I will have the store test for metals and then come back on how to get rid of them. I will remove the cartridge and bac pac and use liquid bleach, etc.

    Thank you.
    Once you ditch the frog from your system, I would suggest replacing it either with a SWG or a chlorine Stenner pump. Dumping jugs of bleach in your pool will get annoying really fast and either if those two chlorination options will allow you to have good FC stability.



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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Also, you can use the liquid chlorine you bought already. That's just strong bleach. Do some math, or use the calculator on pool school, to see if the pool store liquid chlorine, or regular bleach is cheaper per unit of chlorine.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    The 12.5% has no CYA (sodium hypochlorite) I added 16 ounces and raised my levels based on my readings to 5 ppm, exactly where I should be based on my CYA reading. Even though I am doing my own testing, I stopped in to see the pool store because they are my friends. They tested for minerals and my copper levels are 0.03 ppm and the Iron levels are 0.001 ppm.

    If someone can tell me if this is low or high and what I should be doing to get rid of them .

    Right now I am running the frog system empty. There really is no use in the pool because the weather has been mild here in NJ and hopefully the weather will change.


    I probably will look @ a chlorine Stenner pump so I do not have to do this regularly. One step at a time. I was a little intimidated about doing my own testing but so far so good. Definitely learning a lot from the forum and probably spend about 1 hour each evening reading up on everything.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    I'm not sure there is any "recommended level" for either of those metals except that they should ideally be zero!

    That being said, 30ppb Cu and 1ppb Fe seems awfully low to me. Some folks on the TFP threads see metal staining problems when those values are closer to 1ppm or higher so it looks like you have some margin there.

    If your fill water is mostly metal free, then I don't see those values going up on you now that you've stopped using the frog.



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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    The water looks great and I just vacuumed the pool. I am running the frog on empty. I have filled up water bottles with chlorine so measuring it easier and stored them, and I am going to perform an overnight test to determine that amount of loss @ this point so I can just pour the bleach in every day or every other day.

    The only question I have is does it matter if my FC ranges from 4-5 based on the appropriate CYA level or is it dangerous to fluctuate and should I be keeping the level as close as possible daily to the Target FC. I understand if the CYA increase my Target FC will increase or I will have to replenish some water.

    Thanks !
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Fluctuations are fine, just make sure that you never get below the minimum.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Quote Originally Posted by Catanzaro View Post
    The water looks great and I just vacuumed the pool. I am running the frog on empty. I have filled up water bottles with chlorine so measuring it easier and stored them, and I am going to perform an overnight test to determine that amount of loss @ this point so I can just pour the bleach in every day or every other day.

    The only question I have is does it matter if my FC ranges from 4-5 based on the appropriate CYA level or is it dangerous to fluctuate and should I be keeping the level as close as possible daily to the Target FC. I understand if the CYA increase my Target FC will increase or I will have to replenish some water.

    Thanks !
    Personally, I would not store any chemical in other than its original container for safety reasons. Remote, but someone could mistake a water bottle with bleach in it for, well, a water bottle with water in it.

    I estimate how much Bleach I add based on how full my bottle is when I start and watch it as I add, by feel as it is often an opaque bottle. I do not consider it a problem if I over or under add by a cup or two.
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    The bottles are safely put away in a locked cabinet and labeled bleach. It is only about 4 bottles for now and I will take your advice and not use them again. Thank you.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    I understand that FC alone can keep Algae in check. Is there anything that I can treat the pool with, either for the season or periodically as a secondary safeguard for Algae in the beginning of next season? I have been reading about some recommended chemicals on the forum.

    Lastly my pool surface water froze last year before the concrete was poured. I do not know if this is dangerous with the liner, etc. Can I add something to the pool to prevent the water from freezing here in NJ. I read about this Pool Anti-Freeze and seen on line. The ice was only about 1/2" to 1 " at max as we had so much snow last year. Thank you.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Borates (boric acid or borax up to a level of 50-80ppm) can be added to pool water as it has mild algae-static properties. It's a mild effect but some people have reported fewer and shorter algae outbreaks with it.

    As for anti freeze, I would say anything you add to the water will need to be removed or dissipate. I don't think freezing surface water matters as long as your pool's piping and equipment are properly drained and winterized. Salt will lower the freezing point of water but not by that much.



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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    Borates or Polyquat 60 algeacide can be used as a back-up ... but again, not needed if you maintain adequate FC.

    There is nothing you can add to the water to prevent it from freezing without having to go to ridiculous quantities.
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    Re: Not using or removing the Frog Mineralizer and Bac Pac, or possibly leaving empty

    I have religiously maintained my FC level and will not use any other chemicals unless absolutely necessary. Only problem I have is the color comparison on the TF-100, although my kids are very helpful. PH 7.8 and FC is around 3 but could be higher based on the color (tough to tell). The minimum is 3 based on my readings. Looking @ the clarity of the water pretty much tells me that I am ok with my levels. I have been testing every 2 days and adding 16 ounces of 12.5% liquid chlorine daily.

    Weekly I have been Testing the other levels based on the TF-100 kit. I was a bit intimidated with the kit but finally getting the hang of it.

    Again to everyone "THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT".
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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