Liquidator problems

[st1100pilot]

So I liked the idea of using a liquidator to reduce CYA buildup from continuous puck use and I've had one since May of 2013. I've had ongoing issues and I'm wondering if I'm alone or if others have also had problems and found a better solution?

In no particular order:
1. Flow valve becoming plugged with small debris e.g. mesquite leaves coming in the suction line. Flow gauge indicates zero, opening and closing flow valve rapidly in succession actually flushes **** through flow gauge
2. Cracked flow gauge housing at threads - I am on my third flow gauge - I did NOT overwrap with teflon tape nor overtighten
3. Cracked flow-valve handle - perhaps caused by often having to clear debris in point 1
4. Cracked tank - NOT covered under warranty by HASA - seems to occur because water load causes bulging resulting in crack at molded corner

So in the space of a little over a year I've replaced virtually every component of the Liquidator...some covered under warranty, some not.

Here's what I've done to try and address some of the concerns:

-replaced cracked tank with 20 gallon white Brute trash can - seems very robust
-looking into pinch valves vs. flow valves - perhaps http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=64062&gclid=Cj0KEQjwyMafBRCU7OCRyc2vitsBEiQAKV4H9CGbd46Kurx-BMV8qr_UQX5pg3IzJ26ZYIz6EeXnFaIaAhjC8P8HAQ
-considering going without a flow gauge

Admittedly my two pools are subjected to harsh conditions since I'm in Arizona, however I'd like to hear if other have similar issues and what they've done to resolve.

Reg

 

[JohnT]

Welcome to TFP!

I'm not sure how anything could get into the suction line. Water flows out of the Liquidator and into the pump in that line, so there should be no way for any kind of debris to get in there unless it is getting inside the Liquidator first. To get inside the Liquidator, it would have to pass through your filter first, which seems unlikely unless you have filter problems.

Do you have a picture of where your Liquidator hoses connect to the pool plumbing?

Mine is about 6 years old and have had no issues with the tank, flowmeter or valve.

 

[st1100pilot]

Hi John - actually my description was incorrect. As you mentioned the suction line goes out of the liquidator. The mesquite leaves are either finding their way through the filter or finding their way into the liquidator tank (I suspect the latter). I suspect a lot of my issues are a function of UV and excessive evaporation which comes with where these liquidators are installed. I spoke with PST pool supply and they acknowledged I'm not alone in experiencing these issues in hot and sunny areas and actually suggested running without check valves and flow gauge.

 

[nomad26]

My flow meter just broke at the threads after a year an a half.
I called HASA to have it replaced ( I spoke with Frankie) she said they have nothing to do with the 3/8 upgraded parts kit and will not warranty the flow meter.
She would only send me the original 1/4 inch parts.
And I would need to call the store I purchased it from to replace the upgraded kit.
Which I did.
PST pool supplies told me to call HASA he was very nice and told me more about HASA then I cared to know.
At this point I am laughing.
Caught in the middle.

Last night I put a brass coupler in place of the flow meter it works fine .
Not sure I even need the flow meter.
I can find my levels by testing .

What I would like is recommendation on a flow valve thats better then the one they supplied,
I know about the Hayward but is there something cheaper ?
Not sure I want to drop 50 bucks into this system that I may not keep.
Besides there has to be needle valve or flow meter out there cheaper ? I hope ,

Also this Liquidator worked great for about a year and then the chlorine levels got less and less as time has gone on.
This has been a mystery for me .
I am pretty meticulous keeping my filters clean and I have cleaned the Liquidator tub out twice.

Maybe its the flow valve it looks pretty cheap and would barley move the flow indicator ball when turned .
At this point I am adding more and more chlorine to the tub and barely getting a 2.0 reading before I would get it as high as 8.0
I am baffled by this change .

 

[st1100pilot]

Maybe its the flow valve it looks pretty cheap and would barley move the flow indicator ball when turned .
At this point I am adding more and more chlorine to the tub and barely getting a 2.0 reading before I would get it as high as 8.0
I am baffled by this change .

Here's the inherent problem as I see it. Using a Liquidator with liquid chlorine will make you prone to high PH which in turn causes deposits which makes flow valves and check valves prone to plugging. I bet if you bypass or remove your check-valves you'll start noticing your chlorine numbers going back up. I found out my check-valve was plugged when I disconnected the flowmeter (leaving only the check-valve on the suction side) and I hear no pump suction, however when I removed the checkvalve it started sucking air big time. I think I'm going to try running without checkvalves and flowmeter and switch to a pinch-style flow valve and see how things work.

 

[JohnT]

Here's the inherent problem as I see it. Using a Liquidator with liquid chlorine will make you prone to high PH

No, it really doesn't. The effect over time of using liquid chlorine is about pH neutral. Adding it raises pH slightly, but the effect is reversed as it is consumed.

 

[st1100pilot]

No, it really doesn't. The effect over time of using liquid chlorine is about pH neutral. Adding it raises pH slightly, but the effect is reversed as it is consumed.

All I know is that I went from having consistently low PH when using stabilized pucks to having consistently high PH after switching to the Liquidator/liquid chlorine.

 

[st1100pilot]

So I spoke to Hasa and they're sending out the replacement parts including the tank even though it's technically beyond their warranty period. Nice that they stand behind their product but I still don't hold out much hope that the flow gauge will last for long before cracking again.

 

[JohnT]

All I know is that I went from having consistently low PH when using stabilized pucks to having consistently high PH after switching to the Liquidator/liquid chlorine.

That's because pucks lower pH, so they were counteracting your water's natural pH rise. Since the liquid has little effect on pH, that isn't happening anymore.

 

[Daltex]

All I know is that I went from having consistently low PH when using stabilized pucks to having consistently high PH after switching to the Liquidator/liquid chlorine.

That's because the pucks are very acidic. You can either have acid and CYA added via pucks or use bleach and adjust the pH without the CYA creep.

LOL- you beat me to it John

 

[laprjns]

Last night I put a brass coupler in place of the flow meter it works fine .
Not sure I even need the flow meter.
I can find my levels by testing .

I found that its not necessary. My flow meter cracked when I was opening my pool this year and I've been running all summer without one. Just test and adjust.

What I would like is recommendation on a flow valve thats better then the one they supplied,
I know about the Hayward but is there something cheaper ?
Not sure I want to drop 50 bucks into this system that I may not keep.
Besides there has to be needle valve or flow meter out there cheaper ? I hope ,

I use this:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=64062&gclid=COi57YCGnsACFUVo7Aodt3YAUw
Works great.

Here's a photo of my setup with the pinch valve. I use the stock valve as a shutoff valve now.

 

[nomad26]

Here's the inherent problem as I see it. Using a Liquidator with liquid chlorine will make you prone to high PH which in turn causes deposits which makes flow valves and check valves prone to plugging. I bet if you bypass or remove your check-valves you'll start noticing your chlorine numbers going back up. I found out my check-valve was plugged when I disconnected the flowmeter (leaving only the check-valve on the suction side) and I hear no pump suction, however when I removed the checkvalve it started sucking air big time. I think I'm going to try running without checkvalves and flowmeter and switch to a pinch-style flow valve and see how things work.

I will try and remove my check valves and see what happens. And I will try a pinch valve.

ST110PILOT Let me know what pinch valve you end up buying and how it works for you keep me posted on you experiences.

As far as PH goes here is what I noticed .
With the pool cover on PH stays at a consistent level , when the pool cover is off and the water is exposed to direct sunlight the PH goes up drastically I have to add Acid about once a week to keep PH in balance with cover off.
I asked the manager at Leslie's one day about this when buying Acid and he said this is normal reaction.

One other item I notice is I just cleaned the bottom of the liquidator 4 months ago at the beginning of summer and I notice allot of calcium at the bottom after only a few months.
Our water here is super hard maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[nomad26]

I found that its not necessary. My flow meter cracked when I was opening my pool this year and I've been running all summer without one. Just test and adjust.

I use this:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=64062&gclid=COi57YCGnsACFUVo7Aodt3YAUw
Works great.

Here's a photo of my setup with the pinch valve. I use the stock valve as a shutoff valve now.

This is very helpful are you still using the check valves ?
THANKS SO MUCH

 

[laprjns]

This is very helpful are you still using the check valves ?

Yes, both of them are still in.

 

[st1100pilot]

I have ordered the US Plastics pinch valve. Between that and the warranty parts Hasa is sending we'll see how long it lasts this time. I'm still trying to decide whether I'm comfortable with eliminating the check valves.

 

[laprjns]

I found out my check-valve was plugged when I disconnected the flowmeter (leaving only the check-valve on the suction side) and I hear no pump suction, however when I removed the checkvalve it started sucking air big time. I think I'm going to try running without checkvalves and flowmeter and switch to a pinch-style flow valve and see how things work.

You may have the much dreaded "white stuff" Do a site search using the words Liquidator white stuff. You will find many topics on this. No sure that there are any answers beside cleaning, but there is lots of discussion.

 

[hoosierrun]

Interesting reading about the Liquidator. I purchased and installed one this past Spring. I find that I need to add acid on a regular basis, but I am only a little over a year from a re-surface job.
My flow gauge is still working, but I had to get rid of the flow valve due to too many leaks. I bought a pack of pinch valves on E-Bay and am not too impressed. However, I can somewhat regulate the chlorine control by raising or lowering the pump run time by using the mechanical trips in my timer. I run the pump about 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the late afternoon (2 sets of trips on the timer wheel - fixed speed pump), and with no flow valve in the line I stay pretty close on my goal of 2 to 4 PPM chlorine (I rarely use the pinch valve). The flow rate increases when I clean the filter and is insufficient when the gauge on my tank goes up about 5 psi to indicate a restricted filter.

The Liquidator system is OK, but far from creating a maintenance free system. I test every 2-3 days and usually need to add some acid, plus you still need to add chlorine to the Liquidator every 10-12 days.

I'm not looking forward to a cracking tank. Mine is definitly buldging. I can live without the flow gauge if it gives me a problem. For some reason, I though HASA guaranteed all their stuff for life.

 

[st1100pilot]

For some reason, I thought HASA guaranteed all their stuff for life.

They specifically exclude the tank in their lifetime warranty. I purchased a 20 gallon white Brute garbage can and have been using that as my tank for the last six months with good success. I measured the water differential between the inlet and outlet hole in the original tank and matched that when positioning the floats in the Brute. Also transferred over the funnel and extension. So far so good. Much cheaper and I suspect much more durable in the long run.

 

[Dougo]

They specifically exclude the tank in their lifetime warranty. I purchased a 20 gallon white Brute garbage can and have been using that as my tank for the last six months with good success. I measured the water differential between the inlet and outlet hole in the original tank and matched that when positioning the floats in the Brute. Also transferred over the funnel and extension. So far so good. Much cheaper and I suspect much more durable in the long run.

I am in Australia, so the Liquidator is not available here. Therefore I built my own version of this device.

I used a (new) HDPE wheelie (rubbish/garbage) bin for the tank: 60L capacity. I use 1/2 inch HDPE float valves, the fill valve is standard with a brass lever, but is OK because it is not in the liquid. The suction side valve is the same valve but with home-made plastic lever. I have not been able to find a N/O chlorine compatible float valve. The rubber pad/seal needs to be changed to Viton because the rubber perishes. I use a 1/2 inch plastic irrigation ball valve to regulate the flow: easy & reliable. I can also shut it off if required. The tank fill is by a 3/4inch plastic pipe that has a funnel in the top & goes to almost the bottom of the tank.
Issues: I seem to get a build up of white deposit in the tank, & the suction side float valve eventually seizes, so I need to disassemble & clean periodically (eg 6 monthly in a pool that runs 12M/yr). The pump loses its prime because the feed side valve is open when the pump stops if the feed side valve leaks. My pump primes OK, so I do not worry about it, but it is something I need to rectify.
I adjust the rotary irrigation valve until I get the required concentration of chlorine in the pool, then leave it alone.
Hints: I use a 3/8 inch Silicon rubber tube to siphon the chlorine into the chlorinator. The trick is to fill the hose with water, then pinch off one end of the tube. The chlorine bucket is about 2 feet above the chlorinator tank, so the open end of the siphon tube is fed into the chlorine & the closed end into the feed tube of the chlorinator. release the end & the siphon starts! Easy & most of all SAFE!.

Some info on my pool (fyi only) It is a 17 ft, 50000Litre vinyl lined IG (concrete panel) pool. Just changed the liner after 22 years. Big job because I changed the liner retainer clip & the skimmer box. The new liner is good because it has a hook on the top & just clips into the retainer: really easy. Where the liner runs below the step under water, there is a rubber strip pushed into the slot to waterproof the joint. (An Aussie invention, & really easy). I use a Davey Powermaster ECO pump: 3 speed, but I need to run high speed so I get enough differential pressure to run the chlorinator. This still cut my pool power usage by about 2/3 compared to the old 1 HP pump. Well worth the extra the DC pump initially cost. My pool runs on a timer at night (so the unstabilised chlorine has time to work). My pool is covered with Shadecloth to reduce UV, minimise leaves & evaporation. The cover is about 6 ft above the pool on the lowest side, & about 10 degrees slope. The shadecloth is now 22 years old!
I use very low levels of Chlorine, & nil stabiliser. I use a Cu/Silver Ioniser, & the pool is very reliable. It never goes green if the pump is functional. I have even had a really black pool when the pool was shut down over winter for an extended period so passed green to black: ran the pump with the filter on bypass for 3 days & the pool cleared with no additional chemical except for TA balance & chlorine in the Chlorinator. The Silver Ioniser really works! (btw, I never use starter silver additive).
Hint: When you need new electrodes for the ioniser (my originals lasted about 2 seasons), buy the biggest you can. The trick is then to shield the electrode with plastic tube, experimenting until the current is within requirements (on my chlorinator there is an error LED). When the electrodes wear, the plastic can be cut down, or removed.
Hope that helps someone!

 

[dakshun]

I get debris in my valves and flow meter all the time. Some debris always seems to get in the reservoir and eventually finds it's way in......I am thinking the same thing with the pinch valves for flow adjustment can NOT stand that little john gest turn valve.


UPDATE: The pinch valves work better, two in series give a nice adjustment.