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Thread: Need to get things in balance

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    Otis Campbell's Avatar
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    Need to get things in balance

    I've recently completed SLAMing my pool and I need to get my pool in balance. Here are my test results this morning.
    FC 5.2
    PH 8.0+ (My Taylor kit peaks at 8.0 but the water looked "pinker" than that)
    TA 180
    CH 300
    CYA 50

    First question, what order do I tackle this? I'm inclined to address CYA first so I can keep my FC level stable.

    I need to add some muriatic acid to get the PH down. My thought is to add enough to get it down to 7.8 if it is indeed at 8.0 and retest and take it from there. I'm using PoolMath and it says to bring my PH down to 7.0-7.2 in order to address the TA issue.

    Thanks for the help.

    Also, a little forum etiquette advice. Is this the right forum or since I have a SWG should I have posted there?
    Inground Gunite, plaster surface. 28,000 gallons, modified L shape with diving area and play area, attached spa, all pentair equipment, SWG, variable speed, DE Filter, Nature 2 Express. Taylor 2006 test kit.
    Why should you become a Lifetime Supporter of TFP? Because the first time you have a problem and you get the solution at TFP you will recoup your cost many times over.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Need to get things in balance

    Lower your PH first. I would take it down to 7.5. Retest and see what you have. Keeping your PH in range will slowly lower your TA.
    While your MA is getting mixed in get your CYA ready. Get that level up to 70-80. The CYA is acidic and will lower your PH a little also. It won't fully register on a test for up to a week so just assume it's there and keep your FC in range for it. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    This. +1

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    lower your ph first. I would take it down to 7.5. Retest and see what you have. Keeping your ph in range will slowly lower your ta.
    While your ma is getting mixed in get your cya ready. Get that level up to 70-80. The cya is acidic and will lower your ph a little also. It won't fully register on a test for up to a week so just assume it's there and keep your fc in range for it. ��
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Otis Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Thanks for the advice. I tested last night after 2.75 inches of rain Sunday morning.
    FC 3.8
    PH 7.7

    So I added a bit more MA based on Pool Math and will test again tonight when I get home from work. I also threw a sock full of CYA into the skimmer closest to my filter since I'm getting the PH down and I want to get my CYA up as soon as possible to stabilize my chlorine level.

    I'm afraid I don't full understand what this means: The cya is acidic and will lower your ph a little also. It won't fully register on a test for up to a week so just assume it's there and keep your fc in range for it. I understand the point about CYA taking a week to register it is the "so just assume it is there and keep your fc in range for it" part I don't understand. I'm targeting FC between 4 and 6 based on Water Balance for SWGs

    I'll keep this thread updated and appreciate the advice
    Inground Gunite, plaster surface. 28,000 gallons, modified L shape with diving area and play area, attached spa, all pentair equipment, SWG, variable speed, DE Filter, Nature 2 Express. Taylor 2006 test kit.
    Why should you become a Lifetime Supporter of TFP? Because the first time you have a problem and you get the solution at TFP you will recoup your cost many times over.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    What it means is, if you use the chart for your current CYA level, 3-5 is the target. After you add more CYA, assume it's at whatever level you targeted -- even though you haven't verified it by testing -- and raise the FC accordingly.

    Since you're already targeting the higher FC level, you're fine.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Otis Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Did a complete test this morning.
    FC 2.8
    PH 8.0
    TA 150
    CH 300
    CYA 50

    The CYA sock in the skimmer was empty. I don't understand why the CYA didn't move. The sock was empty midweek. I'm cheap. So the sock I added to the skimmer last Sunday was one that I had put in the skimmer earlier. I was told not to add CYA yet, this was several weeks ago, so I took the sock full of stabilizer out and put it in a bucket that I keep in a cabinet on the back porch with my pool stuff. Maybe that deteriorated the the CYA granules. In any event, I added more stabilizer to the sock this morning.

    I also added bleach for the FC level and MA to drop the PH. My neighbor, who is a physician (which means she understands chemistry better than me) with a salt water pool who follows TFP methods, reports her PH rises on her quite a bit as well. She is experimenting with borates right now. I don't want to get too much going on at once so I'm focusing on the CYA puzzle for now. If I need to work on a different issue first please advise.

    Thanks.
    Inground Gunite, plaster surface. 28,000 gallons, modified L shape with diving area and play area, attached spa, all pentair equipment, SWG, variable speed, DE Filter, Nature 2 Express. Taylor 2006 test kit.
    Why should you become a Lifetime Supporter of TFP? Because the first time you have a problem and you get the solution at TFP you will recoup your cost many times over.

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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Most important right now is not letting that FC drop below 4 since you are targeting a higher CYA level. Add bleach as necessary to keep the FC high enough until the SWG can keep up.

    When the FC is in the proper range work on the pH level. Drop the pH down to 7.5 with acid. You can test and make adjustments every 30 minutes when using muriatic acid.

    You need to be careful when adding CYA as it can take a week to show up on test results after it has dissolved.

    After the CYA has dissolved and the FC and pH are balanced let us know, then we will help to get the TA balanced.

    I notice you are posting FC results that indicate you are using 25 ml of water to test. You only need to use 10 ml of water and count each drop as .5 ppm of FC. This is accurate enough and will save on the amount of reagents you are using.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Otis Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Thanks for the tips. I was using 10 ml of water for the FC test when I was slamming. I went back to 25 ml after in pursuit of greater precision. It did cross my mind to stick with 10 ml, however. I have gone through a lot of reagents this summer. I'll go back to 10 ml going forward.

    I tested this afternoon
    FC 5.5
    PH 7.6

    So I added a bit more MA to get the PH down to 7.5.

    I'll keep an eye on the CYA. I didn't add nearly enough to the sock in the skimmer to get it up to 70 so I think I will be OK.
    Inground Gunite, plaster surface. 28,000 gallons, modified L shape with diving area and play area, attached spa, all pentair equipment, SWG, variable speed, DE Filter, Nature 2 Express. Taylor 2006 test kit.
    Why should you become a Lifetime Supporter of TFP? Because the first time you have a problem and you get the solution at TFP you will recoup your cost many times over.

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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Looking good!

    Once the CYA has settled in, you can work on lowering the TA if the pH is rising faster than you like. There is an article in Pool School that explains how to lower the TA.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Otis Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    For the life of me I can't get my CYA up. I've been testing my CYA every Saturday and putting 1-2 pounds in the sock in the skimmer each Saturday as well. Here are the test results from this morning.
    FC 4.0
    PH 8.0
    TA 140
    CH 300
    CYA 60 (maybe 65)

    I've been getting these results consistently for about a month now. So each Saturday I add some chlorine, MA and CYA. Any suggestions?
    Inground Gunite, plaster surface. 28,000 gallons, modified L shape with diving area and play area, attached spa, all pentair equipment, SWG, variable speed, DE Filter, Nature 2 Express. Taylor 2006 test kit.
    Why should you become a Lifetime Supporter of TFP? Because the first time you have a problem and you get the solution at TFP you will recoup your cost many times over.

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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    I am sure someone will come along and tell me why I am wrong, but none the less. When my cya was low after PB left it at 50 for a SWG pool, I took a 5 gallon bucket and put a few gallons of water in it. Dissolved the proper amount of cya in the water and slowly poured into the skimmer with the SWG off line.


    30x20 vinyl IG, Hayward SD60 with Pentair Dynamo 340219 2HP pump, Compupool CPSC24 SWG, Hayward H200FDN heater. APC automatic pool cover.
    Central Illinois

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    Re: Need to get things in balance

    Otis, I found that vigorous shaking of the mixing bottle is one of the keys to getting a good CYA test result. Try another test as follows; shake well for a minute, let it sit for a minute, and then skake well for another minute. Make sure your back is to the sun with the view tube at belt level and no higher, and slowly squirt the test mix into the view tube, keeping the tube vertical and rock steady.

    TFTestkits sells a 50 ppm standard CYA solution that you can use to check out your testing accuracy.
    http://tftestkits.net/R-7065-CYA-Sta...ution-p34.html

    Personally I wouldn't add any more CYA until you are sure of your test result, this stuff just doesn't disappear unless you are pumping water out of the pool.
    Cheers, Peter
    20,000 gal, 52'x17' kidney shaped IG, Pebble Tec, IntelliPro P6E6VS4H-209L pump. Intellichlor IC40 SWG.
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