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Thread: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

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    trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Tough summer. I am on the third rec from the pool stores to change my system. I have gone from having elevated calcium levels ( on ezpool), to elevated stabilizer levels ( on Trichlor). Pool people want me to switch to Sustain........scares me, garden organically, things that sound so lethal get my attention. My husband is considering a salt system. I am just adding water to stave off a decision..........here are the numbers........from the pool people......FC, 5......TC........5...........CC 0...........PH 7.7...........Hardness 190ppm, Alkalinity 101........Cyanuric acid 90ppm....Copper .4ppm Iron 0, Borate 0. Previous owners used EZpool....resulted in Calcium Hardness levels at 440.........oh joy...dumped half the pool and went back to straight up Triclor.....now my stabilized chlorine is at 90. Any suggestions? my husband is screeming salt system.
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    That CH was not really too high, but your copper levels certainly are. Does EZpool also add copper? We never recommend adding metal to the pool as it can cause staining and green hair.

    You CYA is already too high. You either need to switch to ONLY liquid chlorine / bleach or go the SWG route.
    Either way, you need to invest in one of the Recommended Test Kits and stop trusting the pool store ... their testing is historically horrendous.

    How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
    ABCs of Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Oh thank you for such a timely response. EZ pool added copper......it is the only element it bothers to list on the container. I have addressed it with Metal Masters by Pool specalties. They suggest I add a bunch more. Like a quart. Pool people have also suggested that my heater, which has only been used once for the spa 6 months ago, may be the source of the copper because of wiring inside it. I failed to mention that the elevated acid level from the EZ pool ate my spa light that led to a leak that ate a spa light..........that fixed now.......I am hyper alert for anything amiss. I do use a test kit but I admit to being really bad at determining when the calcium hardness test turns 'blue'........for me it only turns purple. I have the Taylor test kit......and I test daily, sometimes many times to get a reading. I am washing my hair in vinegar to get rid of my green/blonde hair........welcome to my world of ash. So you like the Salt water process?
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Bleach and SWG are the only 2 valid long term solutions (except for special cases).

    Might be worth getting the pool balanced using bleach first to learn the process and then switch to a SWG to add the FC for you instead of the bleach.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucky lyn View Post
    EZ pool added copper......it is the only element it bothers to list on the container.
    I think that this is the ingredient list for EZ Pool.

    1) Potassium persulfate.
    2) Sodium bisulfate.
    3) Ammonium chloride.
    4) Calcium chloride.
    5) Sodium Bicarbonate.
    6) Aluminum chloride (possibly Aluminum chlorohydrate).
    7) Copper sulfate

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Bleach and SWG are the only 2 valid long term solutions (except for special cases).

    Might be worth getting the pool balanced using bleach first to learn the process and then switch to a SWG to add the FC for you instead of the bleach.
    Pool store recommended I begin by sequestering the copper. My copper sequestering agent states that adding chlorine or bromine w/in 24 hrs aft dosing can cause colored water. Product is Pool Stain Treat by united Chemical. As stated earlier, my CYA reading is 90. With that reading, according to the chlorine/cya chart, my free chlorine should be 7 and it is only 5.04ppm. Which should I do first? Sequester the copper, add the liquid chlorine, or drain 12-24 inches of water out of the pool and refill with clean water and re-balance? Agree I need to learn this process before deciding to invest in a SWG system. I plan to return the Sustain Tabs ( un-stabilized chlorine). Product hazard and disposal info and product ability to raise calcium hardness levels in my pool make it unappealing to me. Thank you for helping. LL
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    I've never used a sequestering agent. My pool has some copper in it from a pool frog system the previous owner used. I would say dump half the water and take care of your cya problem, and get rid of half your copper problem in one lick. I have a salt system. I definitely recommend it.
    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    You best bet is to quit asking the pool store personnel anything and start posting here and just keep asking questions about anything you don't understand until you do. You can get really good advise here that you can then base a decision on knowing where that decision will take you.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Now I begin. All the ezpool tabs are out of the chlorinator. I returned the Sustain Chlorinating Tabs (Calcium hypochlorite, Calcium Chlorate, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Hydroxide, Magnesium) to the pool store. Bought the Taylor K2006 FAS-DPD kit, 6 gallons of liquid bleach, 16 lbs of baking soda, and 8 lbs of borax. Read pools school materials yesterday. Spent evening re-reading test booklet that came with the kit. Paid particular attention to corrections for false results and fading end points caused by high level of CYA (90) and copper (.4ppm). Did this mornings test using standards recommended on the kit and then did adjusted readings for corrections. Question. How do you feel about the using adjusted readings when determining my saturation index value, calcium hardness, and total alkalinity? Following were my numbers:
    Free Chlorine 6.0.
    Combined Chlorine .4
    PH 7.7
    Total Alkalinity110ppm
    value when adjusted for high CyA 75.3
    Calcium Hardness 200 to a purple end point
    Test when 6 drops reagent used prior to starting test to correct for copper, 220 shift to blue/purple, 240 full shift to blue
    Cya 90
    Double checked value by using half tap water to pool water. Marker seriously fading 45 and disappears at 40........doubled value as directed , guess I am somewhere around 85-90.
    When determining Saturation index, using original values from testing, .1 is my index at 90 degrees. When using adjusted values, my reading is .0 if I use the adjusted ALKc.

    Have not drained water yet. Decided to wait till I had test results. From what I can see, my combined chlorine is .2 too high. Shock will drop my alkalinity and ph. Adding calcium chloride will raise my
    calcium hardness by 50 ppm at 10-12 lbs and drop my saturation index to .0 if I get close to 300ppm.
    At some point I need to add liquid chlorine. According to the CYA index my minimum free chlorine reading should be 6.5 to 7. What are your recommendations? Thank you for helping. I am in over my head. Have not used a slide rule since 1970. Really don't trust myself. Please advise if I should have started a new thread. Figured it would make more sense if I stayed on this one.
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Correction::::::::: the Tri chlor tabs are out of the chlorinator. I have not used the ez pool for 2 months. lyn
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Nope, stick to this thread.

    You are catching on quickly, so don;t be hard on yourself - you don't seem to be over your head.

    Don't bother with CH, it is irrelevant to a vinyl pool unless it gets too high and causes scaling

    I have never bothered with adjusting TA for high CYA and I started with CYA over 200. Yours is a walk in the park.

    For now use pool math and figure out how much of your bleach you need to add to get your FC up to 10. That is your target. Every morning test your FC & pH. As long as the FC is below 10 you can consider the pH test valid. Any FC over 10 may cause a high pH reading.

    I'd say do that for a week of so to get a handle on your pool appetite for chlorine. At some point you will need to decide on how you will continue to chlorinate your pool. You can be a jug lugger and just use liquid chlorine going forward or you can automate your chlorine. Choices for automation include a salt water chlorine generator (SWCG), a Stenner pump or a liquidator. The last two choices do not eliminate the need to buy liquid chlorine, it just automates the addition to your pool. The SWCG creates chlorine from the salt you add to the water, so no jugs to carry but it has an upfront cost and replacement of the cell in the future (years). Use liquid chlorine while you study your choices, no need to make a rash decision.

    If you choose to go the SWCG route, your CYA is only 20 too high as the recommended CYA level when using one is 70.

    I will leave the questions regarding the sequestering agent up to folks with more knowledge in that area.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    There are no adjustments needed when using PoolMath ... just enter the results directly from the tests.
    Also, no real need to be looking at the CSI at all at this point. Just stay in the recommended ranges: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Thanks. I used pool math off my straight values not the adjusted ones. Thus far, I have added 16 oz of liquid chlorine, about half of the value needed to get me to 7. I will continue adding the other half today after I test again and try to come up a bit at a time aiming for the 10 value. Long term, I am thinking that I can use the Tri chlor once the value of my CYA drops to 50 and then go on a 'tab holiday' when it starts to rise and use the liquid chlorine. We have about a month of swimming season left. I will watch to see what rate the CYA drops out before I drain. Since I am a vinyl liner pool, that would need to happen a bit at a time to protect my liner. Should I be concerned about my combined chlorine reading of .4? Really, thank you! lyn
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    A CC below .5 is normal
    12k - free form - plaster- Nautilus fns48 DE filter- centurion 1hp (so quiet)- In floor cleaning system with Jandy Caretaker - TF-50 and 5 in 1 test kit, Phoenix, Az

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Help means a lot to me. Just donated the funds to TFP from my return to the pool store. Seemed like the right thing to do. thanks again, lyn
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    I truly recommend you reconsider your idea of going back to trichlor. You will be fighting CYA all the time.

    With your extended pool season in FL you will add too much CYA
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Do you think SWG is preferable? Any idea what the cost to transition to that system will be for an 18k pool?
    18k gal, IG vinyl pool with 500 gallon fiberglass spillover spa built 2006 . Pentair cartridge filter , clean and clear plus filter. Pentair IntelliFlo variable speed pump.Polaris PB4-60 pressure cleaner booster pump, 2hp, 2.20 SFHP. Polaris Pro 1300 heater. Bought house and pool in 8/2013.

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Depending on how much automation you desire, how much you shop on prices, and if you install it yourself, you are looking at $600-1000. Installation will be more, but it's super simple if you've ever done any plumbing before.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Quote Originally Posted by lucky lyn View Post
    Help means a lot to me. Just donated the funds to TFP from my return to the pool store. Seemed like the right thing to do. thanks again, lyn
    Everyone thanks you. (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-com-Supporter!) It's been the best money I've spent on my pool.

    If you haven't worked with PVC, don't know a friendly soul who could help you or do it for you there is always the yellow pages for a plumber and electrician. Might be worth getting some estimates from independents rather than going through a pool store as all they do is mark it up from their electrician and plumber.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
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    Re: trichlor, ezpool, or salt?

    Well you found the right place to take control of your pool. Most have answered your questions. That's how you learn.... No such thing as a stupid question. The SWG will be the least daily maintenance other than brushing the pool. Yes it's just like teeth, it needs a good brushing too. The next will be a stenner pump. The pump will run about $240 plus a timer and a storage container. A stenner tank will add about $120 more and the pump mounts to that as one unit. You can use tabs sparingly IF you know what the outcome will be. You can use the effects of chemicals in pool math for that. Also I see you have CC's of .4ppm. That's fine, as others have said anything below .5. I bring that up because it looks like you used the 25ml sample. Start using the 10ml sample to save on your test regents.
    17500 gallon Doughboy AGP, Hayward DE filter, waiting for the 1.5hp DB pump to go out.
    Learn to take the advice here and be trouble free or use the pool store's advice. "You can't do both and get very far"

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