Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

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In my spa, I have no blower. It's simply an air line hooked up to the spa side return to the spa jets. When I turn the automation to Spa mode, that air line valve is opened up and the pump draws both air and water to the spa jets. It's a basic Venturi effect, the flowing water from the pump to the jets draws air along with it. I get more than enough bubbles!

My skimmer is plumb with 2 1/2" lines as per my PB to ensure that the skimmer could pull in lots of water. But then again, my main drains are also tied to my skimmer with an anti-suction float valve to ensure that if the water level drops below the skimmer opening, my pump pulls water from the MDs and does not lose prime.
 
jblizzle said:
I think you got too excited, because I really do not understand what you just wrote.

The Hayward SWG systems are made up of 3 parts. The control/power box, the flow sensor, and the actual cell that generates the chlorine. This system is probably around $1000.

The ProLogic has the control/power for the SWG built into it. So you would just need to buy the cell ($500) and the install kit (flow sensor and unions) ($150). So that would be $350 less than the stand alone SWG system that could go toward the ProLogic purchase.

Kind of guessing at prices here a little bit,
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Perfectly understood - THANKS. So, when it comes to my prologic system I need (please remind me if I'm missing anything):

- Prologic PS4 Main Unit ($900)
- Salt Cell with Install Kit ($400)
- 2 Valve Actuators (one for deck jets and another for spa flow) - $180
- Wired Remote Control ($240)
TOTAL AUTOMATION COST: $1700 (yikes!)

And with this I control lights, pump speeds, activate/de-activate all jets, etc?) Much more costly than I thought.
 
I thought the ps4 was only around $600. And you don't really need the remote control.

But you were already going to spend $1000 on the SWG plus would need some way to power the SWG sensing when the pump is on.
 
ssml11 said:
2) I don't understand how you are going to create bubbles without a blower (or at least with one of those venturies with deck opening). I mean, air has to come form somewhere to create the water flow with bubbles effect, right? Doesn't the pump supply just pressure, not air?.
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My spa with 6 jets and does not have a blower and has more than enough bubbles. Many spas with jets do not require blowers. Venturi jets create a vacuum all on their own (see link below) which draws in air without the need for a blower. The only reason some PBs use blowers is because of poor designs. Generally they use pipe that is too small and do not use a Hartford loops both which make it very difficult to run jets without a blower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect
 
Well...the cheapest I've found is $890 for a Pro Logic PS4...the PLP4 lower end unit does go for $550...but I'm staying away from that.
Where did you get yours for so cheap?

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mas985 said:
My spa with 6 jets and does not have a blower and has more than enough bubbles. Many spas with jets do not require blowers. Venturi jets create a vacuum all on their own (see link below) which draws in air without the need for a blower. The only reason some PBs use blowers is because of poor designs. Generally they use pipe that is too small and do not use a Hartford loops both which make it very difficult to run jets without a blower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect
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That wiki link was too advanced for my understanding of physics.... I would LOVE to cut the blower, not to save the $200 but most importantly to simplify automation.

Looking at my set-up, how can I make this work? If the engineer recommended a blower is probably because he didn't trust builder would do a good job on the piping. I should mention that the spa jets will be around 35 feet from the pump...if that matters.
 
ssml11 said:
That wiki link was too advanced for my understanding of physics.... I would LOVE to cut the blower, not to save the $200 but most importantly to simplify automation.
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Just follow these two things and you shouldn't need a blower (I did mention them before):

1) Use 2 1/2" pipe for the air vent.

2) Install a Hartford loop close to the jets.

Those two things should obviate the need for a blower.

Also, you can always add a blower later, if needed.
 
mas985 said:
Just follow these two things and you shouldn't need a blower (I did mention them before):

1) Use 2 1/2" pipe for the air vent.

2) Install a Hartford loop close to the jets.

Those two things should obviate the need for a blower.

Also, you can always add a blower later, if needed.
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Do I just called three plumbing contractors and all of them are recommending me to just go for the blower. It's only a $140 add-on I'll call it a day. Thanks for your thoughts, but if the plumbing contractors down here are too lazy then I can't go against them because I surely can't do it in my own :(
 
As I said, most PBs do not understand how to build proper plumbing. You can do what you want but I would insist on it done correctly. After all they are working for you.
 
mas985 said:
As I said, most PBs do not understand how to build proper plumbing. You can do what you want but I would insist on it done correctly. After all they are working for you.
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My PB did it the way you describe it and when I asked him about a blower he told me that it would be unnecessary in my case because my variable speed pump had more than enough pull as well as modern Venturi jets being very efficient at drawing in air.

But then again my spa is located closest to the equipment pad (~15 ft or so), so perhaps that's a factor too.
 

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Beyond 15' it is a bit more challenging and that is where the Hartford loop can really help. It makes it much easier for the venturi's to clear the air line of water. That is what a blower is really used for since once the air line is clear of water, the venturi's should be able to handle it themselves. But once you have a blower on the air line, you can just turn it off or it will block the air flow again.

I know of several PBs that do not use blowers but have had the air lines travel over 100' by using large pipes with Hartford loops so it is even possible at those distances.
 
mas985 said:
Beyond 15' it is a bit more challenging and that is where the Hartford loop can really help. It makes it much easier for the venturi's to clear the air line of water. That is what a blower is really used for since once the air line is clear of water, the venturi's should be able to handle it themselves. But once you have a blower on the air line, you can just turn it off or it will block the air flow again.

I know of several PBs that do not use blowers but have had the air lines travel over 100' by using large pipes with Hartford loops so it is even possible at those distances.
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Yeah, when the plumber did the pipe work, I noticed a loop of pipe from the jets that went just below the top of the raised edge. I asked him what the loop was for since it would be sitting right below the flagstone coping. He just called it an anti-siphon loop, I did not know it was called a Hartford loop. Thanks for the "education"!
 
SunnyOptimism said:
I think the light should be on the opposite side of the pool or else your "swim out" corner with the spa jets will be dark at night since it sits behind the light.
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See, and I think the light is in the right place. Sitting in the swim out at night I wouldn't want the light pointing at me. Everyone has their way of looking at it...:blah:
 
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