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Thread: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

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    ssml11's Avatar
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    Talking Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Thanks a lot for all of your help so far. I finally received the actual recommended installation plan from the engineer. I need your help once again - check out the two attached diagrams and let me know:

    1- What do you think of the placement of returns, skimmer, light? (notice that the 3 ventury jet lines on the lower left bench also serve as return lines when blower is not ON)

    2- What do you think of the equipment set-up? Note: I think I prefer only one pump to control water-features and flow. I don't mind having to go and engage the water-features valve when I want to use it on the weekends.

    3- Pump to Use?: Since I want one pump to handle everything (except booster bump for cleaning), I was leaning towards these two options: HAYWARD 1.5 HP 2 SPEED, OR HAYWARD 1.5HP VARIABLE.

    I need to get back to engineer tomorrow with my final decisions in order for him to sign off plans and proceed with permitting!

    POOL SPECS: 12 X 24 Rectangular, 10,500 Gallons. Water Features: 4 Deck Jets, 3 Ventury Jet Lines with Blower for a Mini-Bench/Spa.
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    Last edited by ssml11; 08-06-2014 at 09:36 AM. Reason: typo

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    Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    I think the light should be on the opposite side of the pool or else your "swim out" corner with the spa jets will be dark at night since it sits behind the light.

    I have a variable speed pump which handles steady state pumping, high speed when I need to vacuum, spa too. I have a separate pump for my water fall. If you're going to try to run everything on one pump then you should probably consider some valve automation. I know you say you don't mind throwing valves, but it will get old quickly and being able to control things from a touch panel or remote is really convenient. I only have to adjust one valve (skimmer suction versus vacuum suction on a three way valve) and I wish that valve was automated...

    Hayward makes good good pumps but I'm a Pentair fan. Can't go wrong either way in my opinion.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    One other question - LED or traditional incandescent light?

    I have a 500W halogen on my pool but now I wish I had the budget for LED. I recently saw an LED light setup at a pool party and it was nice. Maybe some LED owners can chime in on their experience with LEDs

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Lights will be LED - leaning toward the Pentair or Hayward color changing good stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The plans engineer placed the light there because the house is on the bottom section of the drawing. He says placing the light anywhere else will cause too much glare from the inside of the house looking outside. That placing it on that wall should diffuse the glare. Thoughts?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyOptimism View Post
    I think the light should be on the opposite side of the pool or else your "swim out" corner with the spa jets will be dark at night since it sits behind the light.

    I have a variable speed pump which handles steady state pumping, high speed when I need to vacuum, spa too. I have a separate pump for my water fall. If you're going to try to run everything on one pump then you should probably consider some valve automation. I know you say you don't mind throwing valves, but it will get old quickly and being able to control things from a touch panel or remote is really convenient. I only have to adjust one valve (skimmer suction versus vacuum suction on a three way valve) and I wish that valve was automated...

    Hayward makes good good pumps but I'm a Pentair fan. Can't go wrong either way in my opinion.
    Valve automation? I like the sound of that. Didn't know it was possible...I thought the only way to control the water-feautres independently was to use a second pump (which I don't want to). Google here I come!

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    I agree with the engineer on the light placement, you would not want it shining in your face while sitting on the bench either.

    I also suggest you complete the loop around the pool for the return line of you may have unbalanced flow from the jets.

    Automation is easily added later if you are smart about the type and organization of the valves. Use true pool valves like the Neverlube and not cheap ball valves. This will allow you to add actuators to the valves to be controlled.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    I'd still put it on the other side as I hate sitting in dark water. As well, my lights are visible from the house and the "glare" has never been an issue. But hey, that's just my opinion, you do what you think is best for your aesthetics.

    As for completing the piping loop, I assumed that would be the case for the reasons that jblizzle mentions. You should double check with the engineer on that.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    I agree with the engineer on the light placement, you would not want it shining in your face while sitting on the bench either.

    I also suggest you complete the loop around the pool for the return line of you may have unbalanced flow from the jets.

    Automation is easily added later if you are smart about the type and organization of the valves. Use true pool valves like the Neverlube and not cheap ball valves. This will allow you to add actuators to the valves to be controlled.

    Thanks for the Feedback Jason and Sunny: When you say "complete the loop for return lines", do you mean adding pipe on the left side of the perimeter too and hence create a "circle" of pipes...instead of a line with two dead ends? never thought of that.

    Regarding cheap valves: don't worry. One of the reasons I decided to taken this project BY OWNER is to hand pick all pieces and make sure PB doesn't cut corners with cheap stuff.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Oh, you need to consider the prevailing wind direction. You want the skimmer to be on the downwind side of the pool, where ever that happens to be ... so that could change the entire plan.
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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Oh, you need to consider the prevailing wind direction. You want the skimmer to be on the downwind side of the pool, where ever that happens to be ... so that could change the entire plan.
    Wind will blow (looking at diagram), LEFT TO RIGHT, or RIGHT TO LEFT (along the long side of the pool, Never top to bottom or bottom to top). That's because my house is two stories and it blocks the wind coming from bottom, and the neighbor's house behind me is also two stories and it will block wind coming from top. In this case, is the skimmer place correctly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Any thought about the PUMP to use?

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    The pump size is dependent on your flow requirements. You need to know what the required flow rate is for the deck jets and also the bench jets ... and are you going to run them at the same time?

    What is the booster pump for? The drawing says suction line, but you only need booster pumps with some of the pressure cleaners ... and these are the least efficient types of cleaners because you have to have 2 pumps running. I would suggest you consider a non-boosted pressure cleaner, a suction cleaner, or going with an electric robot which is independent of the pumps.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    The pump size is dependent on your flow requirements. You need to know what the required flow rate is for the deck jets and also the bench jets ... and are you going to run them at the same time?

    What is the booster pump for? The drawing says suction line, but you only need booster pumps with some of the pressure cleaners ... and these are the least efficient types of cleaners because you have to have 2 pumps running. I would suggest you consider a non-boosted pressure cleaner, a suction cleaner, or going with an electric robot which is independent of the pumps.
    I was recommended a Polaris 280 pressure cleaner which requires a booster pump. That's why I am using it.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Well, I personally disagree with that recommendation
    It is a fine cleaner, but I think there are better options in terms of upfront cost and running efficiency.

    Oh, and what you wrote above about completing the loop was correct ... connect the 2 dead ends.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    I also recommend going with the return lines looped. For some reason here in south florida they tend to not to do that. I had my PB do it (thanks to this site) but for sure it's not the norm. As far as pump I can say we have a VS 3hp pump and when we run the pool returns and 4 deck jets at the same time the pump has to be at full speed. Automation in my opinion it's the way to go (it is pricey but well worth it). We control the whole pool from the Ipad (deck jets and bubbler, pool returns, slide, spa, blower, patio lights, pool lights, music).

    In my build I have a set of plans much like yours witch shows how we designed our plumbing. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-South-Florida

    Best of luck and keep us posted.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northrider23 View Post
    I also recommend going with the return lines looped. For some reason here in south florida they tend to not to do that. I had my PB do it (thanks to this site) but for sure it's not the norm. As far as pump I can say we have a VS 3hp pump and when we run the pool returns and 4 deck jets at the same time the pump has to be at full speed. Automation in my opinion it's the way to go (it is pricey but well worth it). We control the whole pool from the Ipad (deck jets and bubbler, pool returns, slide, spa, blower, patio lights, pool lights, music).

    In my build I have a set of plans much like yours witch shows how we designed our plumbing. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-South-Florida

    Best of luck and keep us posted.

    Nice to hear input from a fellow South Floridian - question: I heard that due to the high propensity to lightning strikes here, variable speed pumps should some sort of high end surge protector. Are you currently using any?

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Quote Originally Posted by ssml11 View Post
    Nice to hear input from a fellow South Floridian - question: I heard that due to the high propensity to lightning strikes here, variable speed pumps should some sort of high end surge protector. Are you currently using any?
    Not using any as of right now. This is the fist time I hear about it, I guess I must have missed that during my research.

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Regarding pool pump size and type: I just did some research on my pool's flow requirements and this is what I have so far:

    Pool Circulation: 22 GPM (10,200 gallons / 8hrs = 1275 Required Gallons Per Hour, Divided in 60 mins)
    Deck Jets: 28 GPM (4 X 7 GPM EACH)
    SPA JETS FOR SEATING BENCH: 45 GPM (3 x 15 GPM each)
    ----------------------------
    REQUIRED GPM TO RUN ALL FEATURES TOGETHER: 95 GPM

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    That would required a pretty good sized pump ... I only get around 40 GPM.
    That pool circulation number does not matter, that turn over is meaningless. Plus I am not sure there is any reason to be running all 3. I would assume you would normally just be in circulation mode and maybe add the deck jets. Or have just the deck jets and the bench with the circulation turned off.

    Certainly easier to dial in the flow with a VS pump, but I do not think the 1.5HP VS is large enough for this (and it does not integrate into automation very well).
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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    So....should I go with 2HP Variable Speed Pump? Any recommendations?

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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    I have never heard of a 2HP VS pump. You would need to step up to the EcoStar if sticking with Hayward.
    The 1.5HP SuperPump VS is a significantly smaller pump design.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Its Finally Here: Engineer's Diagram - Your Thoughts? Pump Selection?

    Yeah, I just realized there isn't such a thing as a 2HP Variable. Frustrating: The pool is extremely small (only 10K gallons), and the only reason I may need to go to such a high end pump is to allow for all water-features to run at once with the option to automate? The other route would be 2 pumps - but I see no benefit there as the added plumbing and added pump cost about the same as a variable alternative.

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