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Thread: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

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    Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Hi All,

    I took over my pool maintenance about a month ago and just got my TF-100 kit, so I'm pretty new at all of this. Recently, I had to leave Arizona for 2+ weeks and of course when I got back the pool was turning green and there was a lot of debris due to constant storms.

    Here are my test results as of today:
    pH - 8.5
    FC - 0
    TC - 0
    CH - 1300
    TA - 150
    CYA - 100

    I understand I need to SLAM the pool immediately, but are my CH / TA / CYA levels so off that this will be futile?

    Thanks!
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Welcome to TFP!

    First order of business for you would be (if possible) drain about half of your water and refill, to get your CYA down. Depending on your fill water's CH, this may also help that, as well.

    Next should be to recheck your pH and get that down to around 7.2.

    Then start your SLAM.

    Suggested reading:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ater-chemistry

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...efeating-algae

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl

    There are other sections that would be good for you to brush up on, but we can save those for later.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Welcome to TFP !!
    Charlie gave ya some good advice. Your looking at some water replacement to get that CYA level down and hopefully that CH as well.
    Just make sure you follow the SLAM process to the T.
    How are you chlorinating your pool now ? 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Hi Charlie,

    Ok! I will do the refill / PH check / SLAM.

    I am actually not sure how one goes about draining their pool. Do I rent a pump? Is there a mechanism in the plumbing of most pools to drain it?

    Based on your links and some other forum posts, I also just caught up as to why my CYA levels are so high. My pool guy was using Tri-Chlor tablets for years and when I took over, I continued to use those, thinking those were covering my Chlorine requirements, but I didn't realize CYA was being added as well. Who knows what my real CYA level is, because I only get to a little over 1/2 way to the 100 mark on the test before that dot disappears.

    I just pulled out one of the new tablets I placed in there earlier today. I will be buying liquid bleach to deal with the SLAM. Also, is SLAMing something that can be done after work each day or do I need to start this on a Saturday morning?

    Thanks for helping out!
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Replies in red.
    Quote Originally Posted by JLynch16 View Post
    Hi Charlie,

    Ok! I will do the refill / PH check / SLAM.

    I am actually not sure how one goes about draining their pool. Do I rent a pump? Is there a mechanism in the plumbing of most pools to drain it?
    Some pools have a multi-port valve which allows pumping directly to waste (you would also need to set other valve/s so that you are pumping from the drains and not the skimmer). If you have a push/pull valve, it is advisable to rent a pump.

    Based on your links and some other forum posts, I also just caught up as to why my CYA levels are so high. My pool guy was using Tri-Chlor tablets for years and when I took over, I continued to use those, thinking those were covering my Chlorine requirements, but I didn't realize CYA was being added as well. Who knows what my real CYA level is, because I only get to a little over 1/2 way to the 100 mark on the test before that dot disappears.
    Have you tried the dilution CYA test?

    I just pulled out one of the new tablets I placed in there earlier today. I will be buying liquid bleach to deal with the SLAM. Also, is SLAMing something that can be done after work each day or do I need to start this on a Saturday morning?
    I would say it is best to start on a Friday night, SLAMming at night would reduce FC loss to sunlight. That being said, the recommendation is to dedicate at least 4 hours to the start of the process.

    Thanks for helping out!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Hi JLynch,
    Depends on your pool plumbing is set as as to whether or not you can use your pool pump to drain.
    If you could post a pic of your equipment pad, so we can see all of the plumbing, we can comment about it. Might just be easier though to rent a sump pump or buy a cheap one from Harbor Freight.

    SLAM is not a one time shot. It takes a lot of testing and a lot of patience to clear the pool of algae. You have to Maintain your chlorine at Shock level. Shock level depends on your CYA. The more often you can test and maintain the chlorine, the quicker it will clear up. Here are directions for SLAM, Chlorine LEvels, and the Pool Math calculator which is extremely helpful in determining how much chlorine to add.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html


    Quote Originally Posted by JLynch16 View Post
    Hi Charlie,

    Ok! I will do the refill / PH check / SLAM.

    I am actually not sure how one goes about draining their pool. Do I rent a pump? Is there a mechanism in the plumbing of most pools to drain it?

    Based on your links and some other forum posts, I also just caught up as to why my CYA levels are so high. My pool guy was using Tri-Chlor tablets for years and when I took over, I continued to use those, thinking those were covering my Chlorine requirements, but I didn't realize CYA was being added as well. Who knows what my real CYA level is, because I only get to a little over 1/2 way to the 100 mark on the test before that dot disappears.

    I just pulled out one of the new tablets I placed in there earlier today. I will be buying liquid bleach to deal with the SLAM. Also, is SLAMing something that can be done after work each day or do I need to start this on a Saturday morning?

    Thanks for helping out!
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Welcome to the forum

    Due to it being a cartridge filter you might not have a way for the pools pump to be used to suck from a floor drain and go to waste. If you do, you're all set otherwise you'll need a separate submersible pump to lower it.

    Then drop the pH and go for the SLAM
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Hi JLynch,
    Depends on your pool plumbing is set as as to whether or not you can use your pool pump to drain.
    If you could post a pic of your equipment pad, so we can see all of the plumbing, we can comment about it. Might just be easier though to rent a sump pump or buy a cheap one from Harbor Freight.
    Ok, here is my setup:






    The "fouth" picture is of some system on the wall which I think connects to the "third" picture which my pool guy many years ago told me was not in use and that he was just going to deal with the chemicals himself. I'm pretty sure water is not running through the "third" picture plumbing.
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Some of the pool owners at my office have suggested "not" taking any water out of my pool until November for here in AZ. They said that cracking can occur because of how hot it is, and potential shifting of the pool can occur right now because of all the rainfall we've had.

    Any thoughts on this? Would it make sense to just skip the refill for now and move to the PH rebalance?
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Task's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    You're going to have to do the water replacement otherwise you won't be able to SLAM the pool with that high of a CYA level. You could run a hose into one side of the pool (deep end if you have one) with a seperate hose draining from the opposite end at roughly the same rate.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl, 21,100 gallons, Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump, Hayward Pro Series S244T 3.1ft Sand Filter
    TFTestKits, Pool School, ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry, Chlorine/CYA Chart, PoolMath

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Or you can use a tarp to physically separate the fresh incoming water from the high CYA water you're trying to remove. You need a fairly large tarp. The best thing about the tarp method is you pump out one gallon and you put in one gallon. It's a one for one operation and in circumstances where water is at a premium and or expensive you don't waste any.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Quote Originally Posted by Task View Post
    You're going to have to do the water replacement otherwise you won't be able to SLAM the pool with that high of a CYA level. You could run a hose into one side of the pool (deep end if you have one) with a seperate hose draining from the opposite end at roughly the same rate.
    Any idea with this method how often I need to check the CYA, as you never know how much bad water you've pulled out?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    Or you can use a tarp to physically separate the fresh incoming water from the high CYA water you're trying to remove. You need a fairly large tarp. The best thing about the tarp method is you pump out one gallon and you put in one gallon. It's a one for one operation and in circumstances where water is at a premium and or expensive you don't waste any.
    This seems like a good idea. I will ask around if anyone has a large tarp, or maybe get one for this purpose.

    I'm planning on doing this in the next couple days. I'll take pictures are report back. My pool is turning greener by the minute.
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    You can take a look at the water meter to estimate how much water has been replaced. Note that a simultaneous drain/refill is less efficient in reducing CYA levels (i.e. it will use slightly more water).

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail K View Post
    You can take a look at the water meter to estimate how much water has been replaced. Note that a simultaneous drain/refill is less efficient in reducing CYA levels (i.e. it will use slightly more water).
    Ok. Good Idea. I Just re-checked my CYA levels with the dilution test, and it registered at 180. How much of the pool do I need to replace in order to get that number down?

    Few more questions about pumping the water out:
    • Should I scrub down my green pool before I start pumping water out?
    • The filter should be off during this right?
    • I have an auto-leveler. Should I turn this off and stick a hose in the shallow end?
    • The guy at Home Depot said the pump that I'd rent puts out 53gal/min and my city website says my sewer cleanout shouldn't exceed 12g/min... which sucks. I don't want that thing backflowing into my house! Suggestions? Street?


    Thanks!
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Replies in red.
    Quote Originally Posted by JLynch16 View Post
    Ok. Good Idea. I Just re-checked my CYA levels with the dilution test, and it registered at 180. How much of the pool do I need to replace in order to get that number down?
    Ideally about 3/4, which would get the CYA to ~45. With your location I would guess water is relatively expensive, however you would need to balance against cost of bleach for SLAMming.

    Few more questions about pumping the water out:
    • Should I scrub down my green pool before I start pumping water out? Yes.
    • The filter should be off during this right? Yes.
    • I have an auto-leveler. Should I turn this off and stick a hose in the shallow end? Depends on how fast you are draining, the auto-leveller may help with the water replacement.
    • The guy at Home Depot said the pump that I'd rent puts out 53gal/min and my city website says my sewer cleanout shouldn't exceed 12g/min... which sucks. I don't want that thing backflowing into my house! Suggestions? Street? There may be ordnances preventing you from discharging pool water directly into the street. Someone else might be able to offer better suggestions.


    Thanks!

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    zimm's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    I ran through this: http://www.codepublishing.com/az/pho...Phoenix28.html
    and didn't see any reason why you couldn't pump water into your street's storm drain. Maybe call the sewer company and see if you can put 10,000 gallons of fresh pool water into the sewer. Make sure you specify it has no chlorine in it (which it currently doesn't!).

    Others can chime in, but maybe drain 1/3 the pool, refill and test, then repeat? Then less worries about cracking the plaster.

    If you can- I'd rent small gas powered waste pump from home depot and have at it.
    45'x12' 17k gal, IG plaster, Pool Pilot Nano+ SWG, 1/2hp Whisperflo pump, PAC-FAB TA-60D sand filter, Raypak 266 heater
    Pool School + Test Kit + Pool Math = Trouble Free Pool

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    Once thing to consider is that if you did the tarp method where you pumped out 12,700 gallons and added the same you would be close to a 45ppm CYA level.

    If you drain 1/3 (5,700gal) and refill you will be around 120ppm CYA (starting at 180). Do another 1/3 and you drop to around 80. Another 1/3 and you're around 55 and then another 18% (3K gal) of your water to reach 45. That's 20K gallons of water you will need to use to drop it if you drain and then fill.
    The numbers aren't exact but they are close, I rounded.

    It goes a bit higher if you simultaneously drain and fill at the same time (no tarp). Just depends on how well the new cooler water stays in the bottom of the deep end and displaces the warmer CYA laden water you're trying to pump from the shallow end. It can take two or three times the pools volume to do it this way but it's the safest on a non vinyl pool.

    Just depends on how expensive water is and which method you think is safest for the pool.

    As for the pump, IMHO my preference would be to buy a $50 electric sump pump at a home improvement store so you always have it should you need it. The rental gas pump is faster but it's going to be a lot more noise, heavier to handle, harder to transport and if you need a pump again later you need to rent again $$$. You could also use it to add a water feature later !!
    http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing...177-c-8673.htm
    They usually come with a garden hose adapter but I'd recommend getting the bigger diameter hose kit to make the job go faster. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-Su...U-P2/100645330
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    I bought a pump from harbor freight, and it's pretty a pretty slow drain but working well right now. In the end, I couldn't find the right tarp size without going WAY over what I needed, so I decided to just try the pump in one end / new water in the other. In fact, it's draining right now as we speak. According to my calculations its going to take 8 hours to get the job done. I'm going to try to get 4 hours in tonight, and 4 hours in tomorrow night and then I'll retest the CYA and keep going if necessary to get to 50. Once the CYA is where it needs to be, I'll bring the pH down, then start the slam over the weekend.

    I have to say, you all are crazy about pools... and I'm thankful for that. I wouldn't be sitting here running out every 10 min checking to make sure my pool stays level and green without you.

    I will update with pictures as I turn this green monster back into an oasis.

    Thanks.
    Pool: IG - 1996 - 13,000 to 15,000 gallons? - Pebbletech Finish
    Filter: Jandy CL580 - Cartridge
    Pump: 2-Speed AO Smith - C48L2PA105C4
    Kit: TF-100

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    You are off to a wonderful start! Finding TFP, test kit and asking questions all add up to a CLEAR pool.

    Have you shopped around to find your best source for chlorine? For some it is Walmart Great Value, others it is the local pool store. For me it is the ACE Hardware up the road from me.

    Make sure to check date code to make sure it is fresh chlorine/bleach.

    Go ahead and set in some stock to be ready when it is time to SLAM

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Newbie - Need Help with Green Water and Very High

    For me it was adding a SWG.... be that's a future step. Looking forward to the progress pictures.
    45'x12' 17k gal, IG plaster, Pool Pilot Nano+ SWG, 1/2hp Whisperflo pump, PAC-FAB TA-60D sand filter, Raypak 266 heater
    Pool School + Test Kit + Pool Math = Trouble Free Pool

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