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Thread: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

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    cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Hi every one. Have owned my current 40,000 gallon in-ground plaster pool for over thirty five years. Pool is surrounded by cement. About four weeks ago pool began getting green and clouding. Initially pool store (via testing pool water) reported that I had too much phosphates Ok so I added some phosfree but that did not help. Last week I was told told I had too much chlorine so could not perform test.

    Last Friday I was told the chemicals were balanced and they did not know why I was still having a green problem. Just tested pool (with home testing kit) about one hour ago. Pool is still green and cloudy, chlorine level is fine. Home test show pool may have a little too much alkalinity (it took three drops of solution three to get a clear color) but do not want to add any more chemicals without outside advice. Any suggestions?

    Thanks, Tom

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Welcome to TFP!

    Can you post the actual test numbers for chlorine and CYA?
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Fav=2
    tac=2
    cya=90

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    aussieta's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    time to buy recomended test kit
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...its-comparison
    if those numbers are anywhere near accurate your FC is way too low for your CYA level
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Tom, take a look at the abc's of pool chemistry in pool school. The cya / cl relationship is the root of the problem and the pool store employees just don't understand it.

    After reading the abc's I would recommend getting a good test kit (tf100 in my sig is the most cost effective and helps support the site).

    Once you have the kit please post a full set of results so we can help you through fixing your pool chemistry.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    ok! got TF=100

    FC=5.5
    CC=0.5
    TC6.

    CH=375
    TA-100
    CYA-80
    PH=7.5

    Also ran daily test CL=5
    BR=10

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Hello and welcome to TFP! You have found the right place to get help with this problem.

    Is the pool still cloudy and green? If so, you are going to have to perform the SLAM process. Since you have the TF-100, you are all set to do so. Read up on the process here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl

    You are going to need a lot of bleach and several days to perform the SLAM, especially with a pool that size (note, I have a 44,000 gallon pool, so I know what you are about to have to go through).

    One thing I recommend before you do so is to drain and replace about half your water. Your CYA level is too high, and it's going to cause you to use a lot more bleach than you would have to with your CYA back down at 40 where it belongs.

    As you can tell, your pool store has given you bad advice. They tell you your numbers are balanced, but they aren't. They also never realize the relationship between FC and CYA, and they are really bad about blaming issues on phosphates.
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    HI TOM!

    Looks like you need a place like here to help you take control of your pool. You are on the right track now with the good test kit.

    The others above me have given you great advice so I will only add that you should look around your area to fine YOUR best price for chlorine/bleach. Make sure to check the % and date code as some places have old chlorine and it does degrade over time.

    For some the best place to get bleach is Walmart greater value. Some it is the local pool store using their jugs you have to pay a deposit for. For me it is the local ACE Hardware store right up the road. Here is a link to help you price it out.

    http://poncatechsquad.com/Dan/Chlorine/

    Ask questions once you have read the links so we can help get your pool clear!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    YIKES!!! pool is missing an alligator. Cant do that SPCA & PETA would complain about mistreatment. After 4 gallons of bleach from walmart, 3 pounds of schock my readings are:
    FC=17.5
    CC so high that i stopped with the appropriate solution after 25 drops!!!
    CH=625
    TA=100
    CYA=100
    Cho=orange color

    Pump has been on.? I put figures into TFP calculator but just dont understand what to do. We are in a drought here in California so emptying even part of the pool is very last resort

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Tom - step 1 - NO MORE SOLID forms of CL. The 3 LBS of shock just shot your CYA or your CH up. Stick with bleach.

    Do a dilution test to see what your CYA really is at this point. 50% tap & 50 % pool water then double the result. Post that here when you have it.

    After that follow the slam guidelines for your CYA level, its going to be a LOT of bleach, the alternative is to partially drain and fill to bring your CYA down.

    Find the CL/CYA chart here: Chlorine CYA Chart

    Follow the guidelines for SLAMming here: SLAMing Your Pool
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    You are fighting an uphill battle with your CYA so high. It might be higher. Please do the 50% method talked about above so you will know the real numbers.

    Being in CA you might find someone that can do Reverse Osmosis. Here is a link to tell you about it.

    http://poolservicestech.com/tag/reverse-osmosis/

    I am just thankful that you have a good test kit so you will be able to overcome the green monster that is trying to take over your pool!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    first want to thank you folks for your help. The dilution test shows 60, which when double, is 120.

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    With a cya of 120 your shock level is 47. You can also do a dilution test for free chlorine so it does not use up all your reagent. I think purified water is recommended??
    You are definitely at the right place among many TFP experts to solve pool problems. Also Welcome!
    35900 inground, 1 1/2 hp superpump, Jacuzzi sand filter, barracuda 3 cleaner

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Quote Originally Posted by tom13 View Post
    first want to thank you folks for your help. The dilution test shows 60, which when double, is 120.
    Yup, solid forms of chlorine will do that to you. Mine was over 200. To reasonably perform the SLAM you need to do a partial drain/refill to get that CYA down. High CYA and "pool store recommended" chlorine in the 2 - 4 range is what got you green water.

    Plug your numbers into Pool Math (link at top of the page) and it will tell you how much water to replace. We could tell you everything, but we really want you to learn to take control of your pool yourself.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Darn! You know what needs to be done-----------replace water or find someone that can do a reverse osmosis.

    I guess you could TRY to get it clear without doing the above. it will take a LOT (did I say a LOT?) of chlorine. See the CYA/FC chart in this link. Notice it only goes to 100 so you would need even more than it lists. The amount of FC you need will be needed AS MUCH OF THE TIME as you can. The M in SLAM means maintain so............

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock


    Let us know what you decide to do.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    See the CYA/FC chart in this link. Notice it only goes to 100 so you would need even more than it lists. [/url]
    chem geek has the original FC/CYA Chart HERE which goes to 120. This original chart was "rounded" to make up the one Kim linked to.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Darn! You know what needs to be done-----------replace water or find someone that can do a reverse osmosis.

    I guess you could TRY to get it clear without doing the above. it will take a LOT (did I say a LOT?) of chlorine. See the CYA/FC chart in this link. Notice it only goes to 100 so you would need even more than it lists. The amount of FC you need will be needed AS MUCH OF THE TIME as you can. The M in SLAM means maintain so............

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock


    Let us know what you decide to do.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    ok, with drought conditions hate to lose 20k plus gallons but it looks like no reasonable alternative. I don't want to damage with stain. The only RO for swimming pools is about 450 miles S of here. Water table is low so good time for partial drain. However, outside temp in 80s/ 90s. I heard that exposing the tile in high temps over 80 may cause damage? What do you think. One last stab before draining!! I used the calculator but do not understand how much bleach might do the job? Would 50 gallons work?

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    When you say 50 gallons are you thinking in total? As in from start of SLAM to finish?

    There is really no way to tell just how much bleach any one pool will need. Every pool is so different due to location, water, care, etc.

    The calculator tells you how much to add AT THAT time to get the FC up to SLAM level. You will need to test as often as you can but NO LESS than 4 times a day. In the beginning it is best to test at least every hour if at all possible. You will lose a LOT of FC at the beginning and lose it fast.

    Does that help?

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: cloudy and green but chemical are balanced!!

    Hey Tom, Welcome to the forum.

    I hate wasting water as much as anyone, but when you have a Cya level as high as yours in a pool that large, it takes an unreasonable amount of FC to kill an Algae outbreak. I would not worry about the tile during the drain, but you really need to replace at least 50%+ of the water to make a SLAM practical. If not, you may need more than that amount of bleach before you are done. There is no way to tell, but it will be a lot, lot less if you get the Cya down. It would be ideal if you could get it to 40 or 50 PPM, but you should shoot for a reduction to 60 PPM at bare minimum.

    Your problem is not unique as pool stores and services typically do a poor job of educating people on the Cya/FC relationship. Many do not understand how important it is in the first place.

    When you do the SLAM procedure, more FC testing is better, but do make sure you test a few times per day minimum. After a few days of this, you'll have a feel for how much FC is being used up and as said, do expect a lot to be consumed quickly on the front end.

    Lastly, the most important thing you can do is educate yourself. All this seems like a lot at first, but it really is pretty simple. Spend time in Pool School, first with the ABC's until you grasp the basics. Ask questions in the forum, we are always glad to help those who are trying to learn. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
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