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Thread: Conflicting CYA Advice

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    Conflicting CYA Advice

    Hello, I am new to this forum so I hope I'm doing this correctly. Here are my pool details;
    In ground pool built in 2005, Vinyl, 18 x 39, SWG Aqua T-Cell 15 (currently set to 60% chlorination), timer is on for 12 hours and the pool probably gets about 8 hours of direct sunshine each day. Pool is about 24,000 gallons and has a Hayward Pro-Series sand filter.

    I'm in the Boston area and last season my pool store gave me some very bad advice, which lead to my kids not being able to use the pool for the last 3 weeks in August and set me back almost $200 in chemical costs (yes they persuaded me that a high phosphate level was my problem). This season I vowed to become more knowledgeable about my pool, even though Chemistry was never one of my strengths. So far it's been a great summer and the pool clarity looks very good.

    Having read some of your advice on this site I wanted to raise my FC level to between 3 or 4 , as is recommended for SWG pools. Ideally I should be running my SWG at between 40/50%, right now it's at 60% and just keeping up as FC readings in the a.m. are low having been off all night. My local pool store said my CYA needs to come up to 70 or 80 to make that happen. Again having read the posts about the mythical chlorine lock and suggestions that for SWG pools the ratio between FC and CYA should be 5%, I'm concerned that by adding more conditioner/stabilizer I will need to increase my SWG% higher to satisfy the chlorine needs.

    My goal is to keep my pool in it's current condition without working my SWG working too hard, it's still the original installed in 2005. What do you recommend I do to raise my FC level, so I don't have to keep raising the SWG% or running Super chlorinate too often?

    Latest readings;
    FC = 2.47
    PH = 7.8
    Alk = 37
    CYA = 61
    Salt = 3100
    Pool temp averages between 79-82F (I have a heater but only run it at beginning and end of season so it's not on at the minute).

    Cheers!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels

    That could very well make life easier and help to maintain FC levels.

    Welcome to the forum.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by honeill14 View Post
    Hello, I am new to this forum so I hope I'm doing this correctly. Here are my pool details;
    In ground pool built in 2005, Vinyl, 18 x 39, SWG Aqua T-Cell 15 (currently set to 60% chlorination), timer is on for 12 hours and the pool probably gets about 8 hours of direct sunshine each day. Pool is about 24,000 gallons and has a Hayward Pro-Series sand filter.

    I'm in the Boston area and last season my pool store gave me some very bad advice, which lead to my kids not being able to use the pool for the last 3 weeks in August and set me back almost $200 in chemical costs (yes they persuaded me that a high phosphate level was my problem). This season I vowed to become more knowledgeable about my pool, even though Chemistry was never one of my strengths. So far it's been a great summer and the pool clarity looks very good.

    Having read some of your advice on this site I wanted to raise my FC level to between 3 or 4 , as is recommended for SWG pools. Ideally I should be running my SWG at between 40/50%, right now it's at 60% and just keeping up as FC readings in the a.m. are low having been off all night. My local pool store said my CYA needs to come up to 70 or 80 to make that happen. Again having read the posts about the mythical chlorine lock and suggestions that for SWG pools the ratio between FC and CYA should be 5%, I'm concerned that by adding more conditioner/stabilizer I will need to increase my SWG% higher to satisfy the chlorine needs.

    My goal is to keep my pool in it's current condition without working my SWG working too hard, it's still the original installed in 2005. What do you recommend I do to raise my FC level, so I don't have to keep raising the SWG% or running Super chlorinate too often?

    Latest readings;
    FC = 2.47
    PH = 7.8
    Alk = 37
    CYA = 61
    Salt = 3100
    Pool temp averages between 79-82F (I have a heater but only run it at beginning and end of season so it's not on at the minute).

    Cheers!
    Welcome!

    I just have to ask: Where did you get those test results? Are they from your own tester, or are you still relying on the pool store?
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Yes, I am relying on the pool store electronic test equipment for the current results, why do you ask?

    I also use test strips. I have two sets of strips; Insta test and Aqua Check and they don't really match when I compare them.

    Thanks.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Well, there you go. Two strips that don't match ... that explains why we do not trust test strips. We also do not trust pool store testing, especially if it is computerized ... do you know when and how it was calibrated?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    One of these Test Kits is what we recommend for testing your water.
    Grab yourself one as it will be the best investment you can make for your pool. Plus if you want accurate advice from us we need accurate test results to base our advice on. Plain and simple !!��
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Done! TF-100 ordered online, thanks. Now I just hope I can perform the tests accurately.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Conflicting CYA Advice

    Good job !! Testing is easy. You'll get the hang of it. There are you tube videos on all the tests. Watch them while the test kit is getting shipped. When it comes post up a full set of results for us to have a look see. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Conflicting CYA Advice

    Welcome to TFP from another newbie

    One thing you need to keep in mind is that low CYA can be just as bad as high CYA in terms of FC level. Too low, and the UV burns up all your FC, too high and the CYA buffers all of the FC generated and keeps it from being effective.

    -----EDIT------

    Additional add-on thought that others have mentioned - CYA is one if the pool parameters that pool stores are NOTORIOUSLY bad at measuring. They can sometimes match you in FC/CC and pH but CYA, TA and CH are typically way off or, worse, inconsistent. So your CYA of 61 might not be 61.

    ----END-EDIT------

    Since your reported CYA level is close to spot-on then you might have to consider that your SWG is just getting old, especially considering it is now 9 years old.

    Have you cleaned the cell recently?

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Cell was cleaned beginning of June 2014. Considering the replacement cost I'm trying to get every last bit out of it.

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    This will be THE best investment you will make concerning your swimming pool. You will not regret it one bit.
    If you can count to 50, you can do the tests accurately. Its pretty much that easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by honeill14 View Post
    Done! TF-100 ordered online, thanks. Now I just hope I can perform the tests accurately.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by honeill14 View Post
    Yes, I am relying on the pool store electronic test equipment for the current results, why do you ask?

    I also use test strips. I have two sets of strips; Insta test and Aqua Check and they don't really match when I compare them.

    Thanks.
    The "precision" is a dead giveaway! Numbers like FC 2.47 are just meaningless significant digits.
    25000 Gallon gunite and plaster, 100 perimeter feet. Pool built 1996, original owner.
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by honeill14 View Post
    Done! TF-100 ordered online, thanks. Now I just hope I can perform the tests accurately.
    "How To" videos of most of the TF-100 tests - - > https://www.youtube.com/user/tf100te...e=results_main
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  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    My pool testing kit arrives on Thursday 8/7. Once I've got the results I'll post. Going away next week and want to make sure I don't come back to a swamp like last year. Thanks for all your posts.

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    I have two concerns. First, 3-4 is the target or "lowest" FC for your pool. I shoot for 5-6 to ensure I never drop below 3.

    Second, you said your FC drops overnight. This could be indicative of a problem. When does your pump and SWG turn off at night, and when does it come back on?
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Turns off 8pm and back on at 8am.

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Test kit arrived yesterday and I ran the tests this morning. Here are the results from the TF-100 kit;
    CYA = 38
    CDP=1
    CC=0
    TA=50

    Daily tester;
    Chlorine was in the 1-2 range.
    Ph was 7.2

    Based on these results and other information on this site it looks like I need to do the following;
    Bring my Ph level up to the 7.5 range.
    Conditioner to 60
    TA to 70

    Any suggestions on how much of each to add and the order?

    Thanks again.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    jtaves85mcss's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    Give the pool math page, linked at the top of every forum page, http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    Enter your pool volume at the top, type of construction, guidelines/method chosen (TFP) at the bottom. Then enter your current parameters in the left column and desired levels in the right column. Recommendations are provided.

    Happy swimming. You are on the right track.
    Pool: IG 22k- 16x32 clipped corners- vinyl liner, w/ a great board. Built in 3/99, new to me 2/2011.
    Equip: Hayward 3600 DE filter, Hayward CL-200 Chlorinator (empty since 7/5/2013).
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  19. Back To Top    #19
    zimm's Avatar
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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    PH is okay for now. TA should be all right as well. You should get the FC up a bit to 4 or 5 with a CYA of 40. See this chart. http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock

    If you don't want to strain the SWG, you can manually add the required amount of chlorine to get the FC to the right level. Then hopefully the SWG can maintain that.

    Then you can get some more stablizer in the pool to get the CYA to 60-70.
    45'x12' 17k gal, IG plaster, Pool Pilot Nano+ SWG, 1/2hp Whisperflo pump, PAC-FAB TA-60D sand filter, Raypak 266 heater
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  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Conflicting CYA Advice

    I too run my SWG during the day, from 11-7PM. As a rule, when I test at night at 7PM and then again the next morning at 7-7:30, I expect 0 FC loss overnight. While it is acceptable to have a .5 ppm loss, as a rule, I see 0.0 FC loss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually, the rule is that overnight FC loss < 1.0. Since I don't use the .2ppm scale, instead I use .5 ppm sample size, I use .5 as my check point.
    16x32 DiamondBrite kidney, 12,500 gal. (circa 1985) 3/4hp Hayward SII, Harmsco BF84, Taylor K-2006, Hayward SwimPure Plus / Tcell-15
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    prior 17k gal. vinyl, Sand filter

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