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Thread: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

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    Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Well, after only eight years, our SD80 sprung a leak tonight...

    I was looking at the thread here and am not sure what I need to look for as far as capacity, etc. I have my Intermatic timer set up to run the filter about 10 hours a day (installed with guidance from the good peeps here!).

    Details in my sig, but other questions I have:
    • Do I reuse the valve, or do all the replacement filters come with one?
    • My pump/filter/plumbing is not covered or housed in anything. Could this contribute to the early failure?
    • What else should I replace now?
    • I already picked up some Jandy Never Lube valves to replace the cheap white Jandy 6955 valves last year and haven't installed them yet. Since my local pool installer didn't put unions on the valve, I'm going to be doing new plumbing too I guess...
    • I stopped using the CL200 chlorinator a couple years ago after being converted to the TFP method. Should I just rip it out or put it back in with the new plumbing?
    • Saw several people on Amazon reviews complain about the price on the HTH filter sand. A lot said to get silica sand at Lowes/HD for about $10/bag. Good idea?
    • Since I have Prime, it looks like Amazon would be the best for price/shipping. Or would it be better to go back to b&m pool supply?


    I really want to just blow a weekend and get everything done right and not have to revisit something else in the next few years... Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

    TIA!
    Sick
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    One other thing...

    My immediate thought was just to get another SD80, but I saw some reviews that reflected the same issues I have after 6-10 years, so maybe not the SD80...
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Been looking at the Hayward's.... S270T and S270T2, S244T or S244T2, or maybe the S220T. Not sure why the 220t is more expensive than the 244's...

    Which would be a better match and allow me to cut back on the filter time to save some electricity?

    Thx!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    FYI,

    I'm slowly finding answers the more and more I Google around on the web...

    The difference between the "T" and "T2" versions of filters like the S244/S270 is the "T2" uses 2" plumbing on the valve, while the other uses 1½"...

    Also, got a quote from the pool store that installed the pool. About $800 for the S270T, sand, installation visit, plus misc plumbing.
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    OK, I have narrowed down my choices to either the Hayward S244T or S270T.

    Here's the important info:
    - Original installer used the Pentair SD80.
    - Pump is a 1HP Pentair Pinnacle rated for about 115GPM
    - Totaling all the runs, I'm guesstimating I have about 170' of PVC, about 80' of it is to the skimmers, 90 of it is to returns/jets.
    - I'm currently running the pump 10 hours a day.

    I'm looking at Amazon - $285 for the S244T, $415 for the S270T... Do I need to spend the extra $130 on the S270T since it's similarly sized to the SD80, or can I drop to the S244T size? Am I correct in assuming with the S270T I can actually cut back filter time to about 8 hours?
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Pump run time is mostly up to you. Theoretically, you only need enough time to fully distribute chlorine each day when you add (or for an SWCG). After that, it's how long you need to adequately skim debris from the surface and maintain the clarity you desire. Larger filters do that better, but skimming action also has a lot to do with it. I run mine 6-8 hours per day and I'm happy with the clarity.

    If you're looking for an example here is my thread when I replaced mine, complete with pitfalls of not selecting the optimum PVC parts and not planning quite enough with unions. Replacing Multiport Valve...
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Thanks for the link to your thread! Where can I find the "pump/filter sticky"? Not having any luck finding it...
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Hydraulics 101...

    It's very technical and you don't have to get it all but there are good nuggets in there.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    TYVM! Being a programmer, I fear NO technical mumbo-jumbo! Agh!

    - - - Updated - - -

    LOL! A quick scroll and I see the pictures on check valves. My installer used the "stay away from these hardware store variety".... LOL! Guess I'm adding another Jandy piece to my cart!!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Just a bump to try to get answers on the unanswered questions I had above:
    (I've settled on either the Hayward S244T or S270T.)

    • I will be redoing the plumbing. What else should I replace now? (I have Jandy Never-Lube valves, and will be getting a new Jandy Check valve as well.)
    • I stopped using the CL200 chlorinator. Should I just leave it out or reinstall it with the new plumbing?
    • Saw several people on Amazon reviews complain about the price on the HTH filter sand. A lot said to get silica sand at Lowes/HD for about $10/bag. Good idea?
    • I'm looking at Amazon - $285 for the S244T, $413 for the S270T... Do I need to spend the extra $128? JVTrain seems to think so, and I read other places that "bigger is better"...


    Thanks!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    First, with a 26k gallon pool I wouldn't even recommend the 270. I'd recommend larger than that. I'd probably go with a large cartridge filter.

    I'd leave the tablet feeder off.

    If you do go with the sand filter, you don't have to buy HTH (or any other brand name) but you must buy #20/#21 filter sand. Lowes & HD both have it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Larger than the S270T? Why? The two Hayward sand filters larger (S310T2, S360T2) both need 2" plumbing. Everything in my installation is 1½", so doesn't that involve ripping out everything?

    Do you have any thoughts on which cartridge filter? I started looking at the Hayward lines and am not sure what kind of filter area I need , nor what their differences are between the StarClear, StarClear Plus, & SwimClear...

    For the chlorinator, I think I'm going to put a piece of straight PVC in with Hayward unions so I can easily put it back in if I need it, but leave it out.

    Thanks for the specs on sand too!

    [EDIT]
    After reading and reading, I found the Swim Clear uses a cluster of four cartridges to get the higher filter area, while the Star Clear uses one, thus the smaller filter area. Also see where the Swim Clear needs 2"-2½" plumbing! Sheesh!
    [/EDIT]
    Last edited by SickPup404; 08-07-2014 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Filter differences
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Having 1½" pipe doesn't exclude using a larger filter. You'll have to replumb into and out of the filter with 2" but you can step up and down as needed to get back to the original size piping.

    I like Pentair filters, but that's just what I'm familiar with. I'm sure the other brands are just as good. I'd recommend at least a 300 sqft cartridge for your pool.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Another quick (stupid) question: For draining, since I would be losing the top valve, would I just need to drop in a 3-way valve to get the waste line for winterizing/lowering water level?
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Decided to stick with what I know and get an S270T sand filter. The extra $150 for the cartridge filter was steep for the season (April-September) and amount of use (2-3 people, 3-4 times/month) we have here.

    Now that the filter is on the way, I have a couple plumbing questions:

    - Is it better to have one 90 degree elbow, or two 45 degree with a short distance between them (like 6-8")?
    - The filter comes with a Hayward Vari-Flow valve. I think the Hayward SP14953S union will thread in, but is there enough clearance between the Pump port and Return port to thread two in directly to the valve? Would it be better/easier to put in a short stub of PVC to move the unions out and offset them?
    - I'd like to try to put in a straight piece of PVC that has unions that if needed I could put the CL200 feeder back in service (I plan on leaving it out right now). The feeder is installed with the Hayward SP1500UNPAK2 unions. Anyone know what fittings I could use to duplicate the setup of the feeder with male threads to mate up to the SP1500UNPAK2 unions?
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Quote Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
    Another quick (stupid) question: For draining, since I would be losing the top valve, would I just need to drop in a 3-way valve to get the waste line for winterizing/lowering water level?
    Not sure what you mean here by losing the top valve. The S270T has a top mounted multiport valve. You may be able to reuse the waste line and toggle valve from the old multiport and attach to the new multiport as long as it is in decent shape and has the right sizing. Having a leaky valve on the waste line or waste line adapter really isn't a big deal so no need to replace that if you don't have to. Pictures may help if you can upload one to a photo sharing site and share it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
    Decided to stick with what I know and get an S270T sand filter. The extra $150 for the cartridge filter was steep for the season (April-September) and amount of use (2-3 people, 3-4 times/month) we have here.

    Now that the filter is on the way, I have a couple plumbing questions:

    - Is it better to have one 90 degree elbow, or two 45 degree with a short distance between them (like 6-8")?
    - The filter comes with a Hayward Vari-Flow valve. I think the Hayward SP14953S union will thread in, but is there enough clearance between the Pump port and Return port to thread two in directly to the valve? Would it be better/easier to put in a short stub of PVC to move the unions out and offset them?
    - I'd like to try to put in a straight piece of PVC that has unions that if needed I could put the CL200 feeder back in service (I plan on leaving it out right now). The feeder is installed with the Hayward SP1500UNPAK2 unions. Anyone know what fittings I could use to duplicate the setup of the feeder with male threads to mate up to the SP1500UNPAK2 unions?
    I think you'll be fine with the S270T. It is a bit undersized for the pool but so is mine and your season is also short like mine. You won't get the increased filtering ability of a cartridge filter, but adding a little DE to a sand filter can help it out.

    - Two 45s will give you less turbulence than 1 90 even with a fairly short run between them.
    - It's unlikely you'll be able to put the unions directly into the multiport. Not enough room to fit them but I guess I've never tried it and it's worth a shot to dry fit them in to see if it works.
    - I'm unsure on the unions for the CL200 but I would guess they would marry up with 1.5" PVC union fittings. You'll have some on hand anyway when you start the replumbing. Test those on the CL200.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Thanks for the pointers, and sorry about the other question - that was for the cartridge filter I was considering since it wouldn't have a waste port...
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    Quote Originally Posted by SickPup404 View Post
    Thanks for the pointers, and sorry about the other question - that was for the cartridge filter I was considering since it wouldn't have a waste port...
    Gotcha. Time and decisions made between posts. Sorry I missed that.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Leaking Sand Dollar SD80

    For the skimmer valves, it is better to have two 2-way valves (one on each line), or a single 3-way tying them to the pump?
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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