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Thread: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

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    MugZona's Avatar
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    Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Another newbie question: I've mentioned in another post, I'm draining my pool tomorrow. I've read that backwashing and a submersible pump are two ways to do this. Is backwashing a desirable way to do this? With my filter (Pentair Clean & Clear 320) is it even possible? My water looks good but as you can see below, it's not in operable shape:

    TF-100 results:
    FC=2
    CC=.5
    CYA=240
    CH=2100
    PH=7.2
    TA=140

    Thanks!
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Sump pump is a great way to do it. I wouldn't backwash 10,000 gallons, but if you have a waste setting on your filter, that would work fine. It bypasses the filter.
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Most cartridge filters don't have a backwash or waste feature but it should have a drain near the bottom... If you hooked up a hose to the drain somehow you could use your pool pump to drain quite a bit until the level gets too low. Then you would use a submersible pump to finish it up...
    16 x 32 inground vinyl pool (21000 gallons) (new liner installed 2014)
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Backwashing cartridge filter will most likely destroy it.
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    MugZona's Avatar
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Thanks all! I'll probably just go with a submersible pump.
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Rent a big one (submersible) otherwise you'll be at it for days.

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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    I have a tiny pump the size of my fist, that screws onto a regular garden hose. It seems like one strategy is to get a bunch of garden hoses, and use the small pump on each hose, one at a time, to start a siphon going, then once all the hoses are siphoning water, disconnect the small pump, and let gravity do the work. The more hoses, the faster then draining.
    18 foot diameter, 52" tall above ground Cornelius pool, with vinyl liner, and resin wall caps.
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zindar View Post
    I have a tiny pump the size of my fist, that screws onto a regular garden hose. It seems like one strategy is to get a bunch of garden hoses, and use the small pump on each hose, one at a time, to start a siphon going, then once all the hoses are siphoning water, disconnect the small pump, and let gravity do the work. The more hoses, the faster then draining.
    That only works for above ground pools ... or places where the in ground pool is on a hill.
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    Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    That only works for above ground pools ... or places where the in ground pool is on a hill.
    Yes; my last pool was an in ground pool. I just assume that most in ground pools are not too far away from lower ground, or storm water would always funnel towards the pool, which doesn't seem good. Admittedly, if you have to run a hose to the front yard, that'd be kind of a long hose. It would work, but having a bunch of hoses that long doesn't seem practical, I admit. You could do it with one hose, but it'd be slow.

    In my case, there was a storm water gully only maybe 40 feet from my pool, so it wasn't so bad.

    Edit: Wait, I think my reasoning is full of holes... you'd need the lower ground to be as low as the bottom of the pool, which might not exist anywhere close, maybe not even in the front yard. Sorry - I guess my idea will certainly not work for many in ground people.
    18 foot diameter, 52" tall above ground Cornelius pool, with vinyl liner, and resin wall caps.
    Roughly 7600 gallons
    Blue Wave "Sandman" Sand filter/pump, model NE6150. Pump is 1 HP
    Intex SWG, model # 54601E

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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Just an update... Finished draining with a pump rented cheaply from HD, and now filling it up! Draining was easy, and I got a nice steady drizzle from the sky to keep the pebble moist (not sure it was necessary), and an overnight low of a cool 72. High tomorrow only 89 -- I think the pool will make it! (And yeah, my pool is definitely the lowest thing on the block, so pump was needed.)
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Draining Pool Backwash or Pump?

    Nice! The weather looks nice and cloudy this weekend
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    Hi all,

    Just about completed my refill after draining most of the pool with super high CYA and CH, and it is probably at about 85-90% refilled now. I jumped the gun and did the test so I can get prepared for what to do next (so these numbers might change slightly but I would doubt much):

    FC: .5
    TA: 190
    PH: 8.5
    CYA: 30
    CH: 700 (was hoping to knock this down more stinking hard water)

    What should I do first this afternoon muriatic to lower TA and PH? I can't seem to see on Poolmath what effect muriatic will have on my TA just on my PH. How long should I wait to test after adding acid? When should I add chlorine? Water clear right now.

    Also, I live in the Arizona sun when to add a little more CYA? (I have tabs left over from the previous owner, but can't seem to see on Poolmath the effect of dichlor/trichlor by weight on CYA.

    Thanks!
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    first thing would be to lower PH and add chlorine... the TA will go down as you keep lowering the PH... I have 800 CH in mine right now too... im hoping to acid wash then refill and lower that once it cools off (my pool feels like sandpaper and we always get out with bleeding toes)

    On the CYA once you get everything else balanced you can add 10ppm a week till you find a happy balance between FC requirements and FC usage by the sun...

    I would bring the pool up to slam level once just to make sure there is nothing in the little water left (i do this anytime i accidentally left my FC drop below minimum...
    12k - free form - plaster- Nautilus fns48 DE filter- centurion 1hp (so quiet)- In floor cleaning system with Jandy Caretaker - TF-50 and 5 in 1 test kit, Phoenix, Az

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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    pH first. Don't try to get down to 7.2 all at once - you may overshoot. Target 7.4 or 7.5. Get that mixed up with the pump and a brush and then raise the chlorine up. Brush some more. After it's all had a long time to mix-- a couple hours --run your full set of tests and fine tune things. If the water is clear and there's no CC, I'd hold off on the SLAM. It'll just slow down the pH adjustments.

    I see Effects Of Adding Chemicals show that the amount of acid to get from 8.5 to 7.4 will lower TA by about 17. Each 8 oz puck of trichlor will raise CYA by 2.5.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    As noted above, pH and FC are your most immediate concerns. You're going to have to pay close attention to that pH for a while given the high CH level and currently high TA. TA will come down as you keep pushing the pH back down.

    In sunny Arizona, I wouldn't wait on raising the CYA to at least 50. In PoolMath, put in the size of your pool in gallons, and then scroll to the bottom. There is an area called "Effects of adding chemicals". You'll need to know if those tabs are dichlor or trichlor (they are probably the latter). You can put in the weight and type, and it will tell you what effect that will have on the water.


    Edited to add: I wouldn't SLAM, either, unless you see some reason to do so (water not clear, CC>0.5). You'll lose visibility to pH, and you need that right now.
    Outdoor 14,000 gallon IG plaster pool built in 2000 with spillover spa, 2 hp WhisperFlo pump with MagneTek motor, Sta-Rite cartridge pool filter with 300 ft2 filtration area and 0.33 gpm/ft2 filtration rate, Aquabot Rapids 4WD robotic pool cleaner, Raypak digital gas heater, and Intermatic mechanical timer located in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex

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    MugZona's Avatar
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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    Thanks everyone! I will go for PH first, and I'll keep this thread posted if I have any issues.
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    OK! I added muriatic, brushed, added bleach, brushed, and pump's been on. Here's the latest results:

    FC: 3.5
    CC: 0
    PH: 7.2
    TA: 140
    CYA: 30
    CH: 675

    So... what should I do next? Thanks so much everyone!!
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/

    Quote Originally Posted by MugZona View Post
    OK! I added muriatic, brushed, added bleach, brushed, and pump's been on. Here's the latest results:

    FC: 3.5
    CC: 0
    PH: 7.2
    TA: 140
    CYA: 30
    CH: 675

    So... what should I do next? Thanks so much everyone!!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    3 questions oving Forward WIth Newly Filled/Balanced Pool

    Thanks to many of you for helping me very quickly and cheaply get my pool in balance after a drain/refill!

    A few questions moving forward:

    1) With my CYA now at a manageable 30 (was 240), is there a target range given that I'm in Southern Arizona? Should I try to bring it up right away to 40 or 50? I'm curious on hearing various opinions, including those who have many hours of sun exposure on their pools daily (and keeping in mind that I could use the occasional puck for vacations).

    2) For my nightly bleach additions, should I be aiming for to the "Target" FC, slightly above, what? Should pump be running during chemical addition?

    3) Related what hours of the day, and for how long, should I run my pump? (Same question re: the Kreepy Krauly, which likes to be a jerk and hang out on one side of the pool, or get stuck up on the wall?)

    Thanks!!

    Matt
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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    Re: Drain and Refill Almost Done Next Step/



    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Nuvene — in terms of finding that CYA/FC balance, how do you map that out? Is it a matter of thinking about FC goals over the course of a day (X in the morning, Y at sunset, Z after nightly addition) and seeing what CYA gets you to that point with the least bleach use?
    13,000 Gallon IG Double Roman End with Steps PebbleTec Seafoam Green Pentair Clean & Clear Plus Cartridge Filter 320 1 HP Sta-rite pump (MPR6E-147L) TF-100 test kit Kreepy Krauly Cacuum

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