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Thread: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

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    Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Howdy friends!

    I get backup test results from the local pool store, Patio pools & Spa's of Tucson AZ. Maybe I shouldn't!

    They are recommending I use their product, Biogard "Balance pack 100" to raise my Total Alkalinity, but I use Arm & Hammer Baking Soda. The representative said "Oh this is much more powerful than Baking Soda, if you used baking soda you would have to use 3 times as much." The Biogard bag says "Sodium Hydrogen 100%" on the bag.

    These are the same people that said "Oh please do NOT use household bleach in lieu of pool chlorine, it could make swimmers sick!"

    I'm calling BS on them ((again)), but I just wanted to double check with the experts here.

    So what do you say?
    14,000 gallons in ground pebbletec built in 2007 with a waterfall feature.

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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Aaahhh.... maybe they're snorting the product????

    Seriously, it's "3x as good" but costs 10x + as much as baking soda. Sounds like BioBS to me.
    19.5k gal, 16x32 vinyl liner, sand filter, 1hp single speed pump, K-2006 test kit.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    You most certainly shouldn't. What test kit do you have?

    Of course they are recommending their overpriced product ... they have kids to feed

    Looks like they changed the name to make you think it is different. Read the first sentence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_bicarbonate

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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Sounds like they have a good business plan and uninformed, misinformed or just plain lying to your face. They are the exact same chemical. The pool store just makes a higher profit from the balance pack.
    17500 gallon Doughboy AGP, Hayward DE filter, waiting for the 1.5hp DB pump to go out.
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    You most certainly shouldn't.
    I most certainly shouldn't what? Believe their BS I presume?
    14,000 gallons in ground pebbletec built in 2007 with a waterfall feature.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrazier View Post
    I most certainly shouldn't what? Believe their BS I presume?
    Get "backup testing"
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Sodium hydrogen is not even a real chemical or proper chemical name. If they can't even get that right on the package, I'd never use it.

    Home testing with a good test kit (Test Kits Compared) will always be better and more convenient than pool store testing.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Also:

    Bioguard Balance Pack 100 MSDS: http://www.thepoolteamstore.com/subp...0Pak%20100.pdf
    Arm & Hammer Baking Soda MSDS: http://www.ahprofessional.com/_downl...ICARBONATE.pdf

    Both 100% of the same chemical, but A&H bothers to use a more proper, more often used name rather than an obscure, confusing name for the active ingredient.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    More than likely they are selling Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate. That is the same thing as Sodium Bicarbonate, or baking soda. They don't know what they are talking about.

    From the Bioguard MSDS for Balance Pack 100:

    2. COMPOSITION / INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
    Chemical Name CAS# Wt.%
    Sodium hydrogen carbonate 144-55-8 100%
    And from Arm & Hammer baking soda's MSDS:

    3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
    Chemical Ingredient (% by Weight) CAS Number
    Sodium Bicarbonate 100% 144-55-8
    Note they have the exact same CAS number, which is assigned by the Chemical Abstracts Service to every chemical.

    It is exactly the same thing.
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Given all this ... do you still want to go there and have them test your water and give you advice?
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Also:

    Bioguard Balance Pack 100 MSDS: http://www.thepoolteamstore.com/subp...0Pak%20100.pdf
    Arm & Hammer Baking Soda MSDS: http://www.ahprofessional.com/_downl...ICARBONATE.pdf

    Both 100% of the same chemical, but A&H bothers to use a more proper, more often used name rather than an obscure, confusing name for the active ingredient.
    That was beautiful... resorting to the Material Safety Data Sheets, my hat is off to you!


    Now, I wonder if someone could debunk a whole lot of other products using this method. What exactly is "Maintenance Oxidizer" or "Burnout 73" or "Scale Inhibitor" or "Natural Clarifier" or "Algae All 60"? This might be a fun new thread if someone cares to.
    14,000 gallons in ground pebbletec built in 2007 with a waterfall feature.

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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    We do not recommend or use any of those magic potions.
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Quote Originally Posted by bfrazier View Post
    That was beautiful... resorting to the Material Safety Data Sheets, my hat is off to you!


    Now, I wonder if someone could debunk a whole lot of other products using this method. What exactly is "Maintenance Oxidizer" or "Burnout 73" or "Scale Inhibitor" or "Natural Clarifier" or "Algae All 60"? This might be a fun new thread if someone cares to.
    Here's a list of Bioguard MSDS's to get you started.
    http://www.hydropool.com/downloads/MSDS/bioguard/
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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    That's the beauty of Material Safety Data Sheets. No matter what the uninformed pool store employee tells you, they can't argue with the MSDS because they are required to be accurate and required to be publicly available for non-proprietary consumer product chemical formulations. You can even get a good idea of what's in something, without exact concentrations/percentages in some proprietary chemicals.

    The general rule with TFP is don't buy any chemicals from a pool store other than liquid bleach if it's a good bargain or equivalent cost with convenience of concentration or container size. Perhaps if you need calcium hardness increaser... but there are other options. The rest (baking soda, borax, even cyanuric acid, etc.) can be bought from a grocery store or big box retailer for much less cost and you don't have to listen to a pool store employee trained more in sales and scare tactics than in pool chemistry.

    I know I may come off as a pool store basher... and I am. But my local experience has been DREADFUL and I've heard a lot of the same here and from people in my community. There's a few good ones out there, but they are the exception, not the rule.

    /RANT OFF
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    I suggest that you read this page so you have a complete set of chemicals and where to buy. I only go to the pool store for CH increaser (if not found at my local wal-mart) and stabilizer (if not found at my local wal-mart). I get muriatic acid at Home Depot, bleach from wal-mart or Costco, borax and baking soda from Wal-Mart.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...pool-chemicals
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Great answers from lifetime members, moderators and TFP Experts... it is sort of amazing here. In my 54 years nowhere have I found such consistently awful advice from any business sector and such a great web site full of experts to refute the snake-oil sales.

    Thanks to all here at troublefreepool, I am comfortable heading up the learning curve with a little help from you friends.

    Bob
    14,000 gallons in ground pebbletec built in 2007 with a waterfall feature.

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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Welcome to the family
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    The next thing you know they will be warning you about all that dangerous Dihydrogen Monoxide in your pool, to find out about it and all its dangers check out http://www.dhmo.org/
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
    The next thing you know they will be warning you about all that dangerous Dihydrogen Monoxide in your pool, to find out about it and all its dangers check out http://www.dhmo.org/
    Good one!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    We do not recommend or use any of those magic potions.
    And that is surely the best advice I've seen.
    14,000 gallons in ground pebbletec built in 2007 with a waterfall feature.

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    Re: Pool store says Sodium Hydrogen is 3X stronger than Sodium Bicarbonate.

    Great thread. As a former Bioguard victim, I wish everyone understood the info that was discussed here.
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