Timer?

[Caddie]

Hi All -

We installed our 18ft round above ground pool two weeks ago and everything is working great. Currently our pump is running 24/7 which I am going to change tomorrow buy installing an outdoor timer. My plan is to start by running the pump 8 hrs over night and that's it. Is this enough time?

However, my main question is this....we have a Hayward Salt Water System. Do I set the Hayward Control panel to power on/off at the same time as the pump or do I leave it on all the time? It's currently set to Automatic chlorination.

Thanks for any information!

Caddie.

 

[jblizzle]

The SWG should be powered off the same timer as the pump.

Since you are cutting the run time to a third, you will need to triple the output % from the SWG to add the sand amount of chlorine.

 

[Caddie]

Currently it is running on automatic, how do I know what % to put it on?

 

[jblizzle]

What Hayward system do you have?

 

[Caddie]

We have a Aqua Trol system AQ-TROL-RJ-CUL

 

[jblizzle]

I have to look it up to verify, but isn't there a dial on the control panel for the output?

 

[Caddie]

Ya, I just got it sorted. For some reason I thought the dial didn't do anything when it was automatic but it does. Apparently the system runs on a 3 hour clock. So if you have the dial set to 50% it will run 50% of the time when it's on automatic. So, I've been running my 24/7 at 55% of the time, the result is my chlorine (just tested) is a bit high at 5.1. So I'm going to leave it at 55% for now because it's now set on a timer that will only run for 10 hours each night. I will test it in a week and see where the levels are at...does this make sense to you?

 

[jblizzle]

Waiting a week to test is likely too long to wait. And reducing the on time by over half and not raising the SWG output may drop the FC too much.

What is your CYA? A FC of 5ppm is not really too high according to the FC/CYA Chart.

How did you get a measurement of 5.1? That is not typical of any of the normal test kits.

Please add your pool details to your signature as described HERE as it will help us help you in the future.

 

[Caddie]

Ok, that seems reasonable. I brought a water sample to my local pool dealer to do the testing.

Here are the results of my test from this morning:

CYA: 0.0 - they are asking me to add 1.75 KG of SaltScapes Sunshield Stabilizer to correct this.
Tot. Chlorine: 6.4 - initially they said to add 2 bags of Burn Out to lower the chlorine, but then said not to until we see where the chlorine levels out at with the timer now on.
Free Chlorine: 5.2
pH: 8.1 - asking me to add .8 KGs of SaltScapes pH Reducer

Thanks for the tip on adding my pool details to my signature, I will do that when I get some time.

 

[jblizzle]

Well, I can not comment on any of their suggestions without knowing anything about your pool ... except to say, we do not trust pool store testing and that you can make necessary adjustments using chemicals that are likely far cheaper than what they are trying to sell you.

The reason your SWG is having to run so much is due to your apparent lack of CYA which protects the FC from the sun.

How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
ABCs of Water Chemistry
Recommended Pool Chemicals
Water Balance for SWGs

 

[Caddie]

Ok, I will start with reading this documentation, thanks!

 

[Caddie]

One question, if I don't buy the chemicals from the pool supplier, where else would I get them? For example the Cyanuric Acid?

 

[jblizzle]

In the states: Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. carry stabilizer. Note that this is the one chemical that is ONLY used in pools. The rest have "grocery-store" type substitutes which are the same ingredient.

 

[SunnyOptimism]

Most of your basic pool chemicals can be found in big box stores (Walmart, Target, etc.) and/or hardware stores (Ace, Lowes,etc). Most have pool sections to them. CYA is typically called Stabilizer or Conditioner and you should read the active ingredient list as it should say what percentage cyanuric acid it contains.

No one is saying you can't use pool stores to buy chemicals. Sometimes their prices on liquid chlorine and muriatic acid are better than some other local retailers. What we are saying is that you need to ignore the "free water testing" as it is nothing more than a marketing gimmick used to get you to buy their list of expensive chemicals to fix problems that you do not need to be worried about. As well, pool store water testing is notoriously inaccurate on certain parameters (like CYA) and inconsistent on others (like TA and CH)

If you do your own water testing and follow the TFPC method using PoolMath, then you'll know EXACTLY what chemicals you need and exactly how much to add. No need for the pool store clerk to tell you what to do.

 

[Caddie]

Ok Sunny....thank you very much for the input. I am going to give it to Monday and test the water myself. Then go to the math section and see if I can figure things out. Thanks again.

 

[phonedave]

As for your question about is 8 hours of pumping time enough - I would say yes, off the top of my head.

However, you really need to do the math, but that can't be done untill we know the size of your pool (18' ABG , yes, but how deep, and is it a flat bottom)

And what sort of filter/pump do you have, you need to know the flow it puts out.

Opinions vary, but you should be running your pump enough to turn over your pool between one and two times per day.

For example, I only run mine for about 5 hours a day, even though I have a 17,000 gallon pool. My pool temps are cooler, my flow rate is higher (because of a hard plumbed system), we have a fairly low usage level, and my pool does not get a lot of "Stuff" in it. I started at 8 hours a day, and backed it down over time, while watching and testing to see the results. If we have a large bather load, or a heavy storm where a lot of debris may have blown into the pool, then I will filter for extra time.

-dave

 

[jblizzle]

Actually, this forum does not follow the out-dated 1-2 turnover historical recommendation. We say you only need to run the pool long enough to keep the water clean enough to your liking. Often 4 hours is plenty and that is more than enough time to sufficiently circulate the chemistry. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/152-determine-pump-run-time

 

[SunnyOptimism]

Can I chime in and further add that even the "clean to your liking" criterion is not enough for an SWCG pool.

You need to run the pumps and the SWG cell long enough so that you maintain adequate FC levels. If I go below 6 hrs/day run time (in the hot summer months) than I'd have to run my SWG harder (> 50%) to keep the FC level high enough so that it holds at the proper FC/CYA ratio. In the winter, I can actually run my pumps every other day for 4hrs and 25% on the SWG and maintain adequate FC.

So it's a trial and error process. You can start off at 8hrs and 50% and see where that leaves your FC at the end of the day (low sun). If you end the day with too low FC, then you need to either run the pumps longer or push your SWG harder.

Clarity and cleanliness would be a second order iteration on the primary FC iteration, ie, after getting good FC levels then worry about adding additional pump time for cleanliness.

 

[wayner]

Turnover isn't the only issue, SWCG is an additional issue to consider and there can be others, like solar heating panels. I installed solar panels recently so I now run my pump while the sun is up to keep the pool warm.

 

[jblizzle]

And the SWG and other factors are noted in the article I linked to ....