Weekly Maintenance & Pump Running Time

[Catanzaro]

My pump has been running for 10 hours a day and after reading a few posts I have scaled the pump down to 8 hours per day. Additionally I am having my water tested by the pool company every 7-10 days. There are barely any leaves that enter the pool so the pool stays pretty clean as in the morning with the pump off the water looks crystal clear (good news). The pump PSI is about 10-12 on a normal day (it used to be higher @ 15 PSI) and now has changed. I was told only to backwash after the pump increases above another 10 psi. After reading a few posts I understand that backwashing should be done when there is a 25% increase in pressure. I will swap out the gauge as sometimes water enters the gauge and then dries up to make sure I am getting an accurate reading.

Q: Should I go back to 10 hours a day or leave @ 8 hours per day or even less.

Weekly I add approximately 1.5 lbs. of non-chlorine shock (alternate 1 lb. and 2 lbs.) weekly
Weekly I add a capful of Commercial Strength Phos-Free to the skimmer basket and if we have heavy rain I will add 2 capfuls
The Setting on the Frog System is 5 and the chlorine packs last about 9-10 days before they have to be replaced.

Outside of this every few weeks I have to add 5 LBS. & 9 LBS. OF EZ COLOR ALKALINITY UP and in the beginning of the season I had to add 15 LBS. & 11 LBS. OF EZ COLOR CALCIUM HARDNER & some 1 Gallon of Water Conditioner. Also the BAM 90 Day Algae protection was ran through the system about 2 months ago.

My pool had to be opened up super early as the soil needed to settle before the concrete was poured.

Should I modify, adjust or change anything that I am doing? What could have caused the pressure drop reading on the gauge? So far no problems. I also backwash about every 3 weeks and fill the pool with some new water.

Thank you.



14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner
Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
Frog Mineralizer System - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
Pool Company tests water
Date of Build is 11-2013

 

[Catanzaro]

Picture

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Love the pool
Did you have a question?

 

[Catanzaro]

I did and somehow the question was deleted. I tried to add the picture and deleted the post ??? Just sent an e-mail to the administrator.

It was basically that the Pool Company has me on a regular weekly maintenance program where I am using 1.5 lbs. of non chlorine shock weekly and one capful of phos-free weekly unless it rains a lot and then 2 capfuls. My phosphates seem high so I am trying to get on a schedule. Outside of that I follow the recommended chemicals in the pool that the pool company provides me. I replace the chlorine pack every 9-10 days and the setting on the frog mineralizer system is on 5. I used the 90 day algae protection and ran it through the system. I have to add powdered alkalinity every few weeks and in the beginning of the season I added calcium elevator, etc. I can upload a sheet if need be. I am very good at keeping records and am new to the pool.

My pressure reading has dropped from about 15 to 10-12 psi so I do not know if the gauge is off. So the real question(s) were am I following the right schedule with the pool. Is the shock necessary? I have a friend who has a swamp and I do not want to ever wake up one morning to a green pool. It rained heavily a few days here in NJ and I as one of the only customers in the morning who walked in without a swampy green pool. So if the chemicals do not hurt I do not mind spending the $$. The shock is about $10 weekly plus other chemicals, etc.

And thank you about the pool. I have spent about 1000 hours putting the yard together. I designed the concrete, etc. Now just want to make sure that nothing goes wrong.

 

[BoDarville]

Welcome to TFP!

Very nice looking pool and yard.

The first thing you will need to do is to decide whether you want to continue and follow the Pool Company maintenance plan or take control of your pool yourself and follow our plan. The two methods are not compatible. I can tell you that most people, including myself, that have followed the TFPC method have not had to shock their pool in years (over 3 years in my case), nor do we use phosphate removers. A key principle in managing your pool water is maintaining the proper chlorine to CYA (stabilizer) ratio (see Chlorine CYA Chart).

I would suggest reading this article for a quick primer on managing water chemistry according to the TFPC method: ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

Post back if you have any questions or are interested in converting to the TFPC method.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Ouch! I can't imagine what all those chemicals cost? I'd rather save the money and invest it elsewhere.
I also prefer to swim in a pool with the *least* amount of chemicals, yet one that has never had an algae outbreak nor other major problem and is always pristine clean.
I trust my own testing over all pool store testing (especially since the tests will vary widely even on the same sample taken to different stores). I know that my local Leslie's will always push expensive PhosFree on *everyone* yet it isn't needed at all as long as one keeps their chlorine level in proportion to their CYA level. I see you have a vinyl lined pool- did your pool store forget to mention to you that it usually doesn't need extra calcium added?
I know your pool looks great now and all that, and I hope you won't have any problems down the road. But if you do and you want to take the bull by the horns and care for your pool yourself (instead of paying someone else to do so) you'll find plenty of "how to" information here with plenty of expertise to share free of charge. No one here is selling any PhosFree! :colors:

 

[Catanzaro]

I am going to have my water tested today from the Pool Company today to determine if they recommend to keep adding chemicals. I have other issues to deal with and need to complete the yard for the final CO and then I will go in full force learning about my pool. Yes, Phos-Free is expensive and based on what I can see I need about 2 bottles $100per season. Then the Non-Chlorine Shock will run me about $125 per season plus the other chemicals. I am guessing the total cost is about $600-$750 per year. It is hard to gauge as my pool was opened up very early in the season (which will not happen next year). With regards to the calcium this was early in the season and they have not recommended it at all. I even had the water tested a few times (like 5X) and walked out of there with nothing to do as all the levels were perfect. I am keeping excellent records so I can look back to determine how to make this a bit smoother.

Please tell me which Test Kit to purchase and where I can find the information on the chlorine level proportionate to the CYA Level. I have been reading up on the forum almost every few days and am slightly confused but love to learn. I am always willing to save some $$$ during the season. As long as no harm is being done to the liner, plumbing or pool this year I will prepare myself and learn for the next season as we only have about 6 weeks maximum here in NJ before the pool has to be closed. Additionally I would like to know where I can purchase chemicals for a reasonable cost. I have scoured the web for the same chemicals and it looks like the pool company I used with about the same price if not lower. I also need to know what chemicals are needed to close the pool in the fall so I wake up to no problems in the summer. Thank you.

It looks like the original post was not deleted after all!

 

[BoDarville]

It looks like the original post was not deleted after all!

What may have happened is, if you edited your original post - say to post additional pics or add/change wording - it may have placed it back into "Moderated" status requiring it to be re-approved by a Moderator. This only impacts new members. I strongly suspect this is what happened since I remember approving the initial post and noticing that your second post had already been approved.

 

[kimkats]

The chemicals you would use with the TFP way can be bought at............................Walmart!!!!!!!!!! Yeah for real!!!

Here is a link to the pool tests that are the best.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/124-pool-test-kits-comparison

It is SO much cheaper and easier in the end.

I live in Florida and keep my pool open year round. I spend less than $50.00 a month during the spring/summer. During the winter it is maybe $20.

My water is so clear that I though it was gone one time when I looked out the window! There was not breeze and the pump was off so I could not see the water.

We would LOVE to help you take control of your pool and have fun learning how to test it!

Kim

 

[jcowart]

Welcome to TFP. I like your pool and yard. Some of your questions have been answered so I will give you some general info about our method. The pool store way and our way do not mix. They base there business off of selling chemicals. We base it off knowledge, accurate testing, and only adding products that are needed right then. Your best test kit would be the TF-100 and a close second is the Taylor K-2006. They both use the same test regents. The TF-100 is a compiled kit from bulk Taylor regents so you get more tests of the most common areas. The K-2006 just have smaller bottles. The TF-100 is online only and the K-2006 is sold in "some" local stores. Pool stores are good at selling the K-2005 and telling you it's the same thing. It's not, the 2005 is a DPD test and the TF-100 and 2006 is a FAS/DPD test. Knowledge..... What is the active part of the chemical. It's the same as going to CVS and looking at Tylenol. You can get name brand $$ or CVS acetaminophen $. Your alkalinity up that you added is pure baking soda. 49 cents a pound at walmart. Chlorine is chlorine once it's in the pool. It comes in different forms and adds byproducts to the pool. Your frog uses tri-chlor that adds chlorine, CYA and salt. Di-chlor shock adds the same just more byproducts. Cal-hypo adds chlorine, calcium and salt. What we use is liquid sodium hypochlorite. When it's in strengths above 10% it's sold as pool chlorinating liquid or liquid shock. If it's below 10% it is sold as common household bleach. $2.98 at walmart for unscented bleach. With that chlorine the only byproduct is a little salt. We use the FC/CYA ratio that the pool stores do not. CYA will protect the chlorine some from UV. It will also buffer the effects of chlorine. The more CYA that's in the pool, the more it's buffered and it becomes less effective. That's when pool stores come up with terms like chlorine lock. You have chlorine in the pool but are still fighting algae. If you plan on using the TFP method then start with pool school. Take it in small chunks but understand it. It looks like a lot of info but it really is easy to learn. By the way. I live in Southeast Texas, our season is about 6 months and I do not close for the winter. Last year my chemical cost was less than $200 total.

 

[Sminor]

I got a late start this year due to a liner replacement but I've spent less then $100 on chemicals this summer... Added fresh city water with the new liner, 4 lbs of stabilizer, two boxes of borax, one bag of baking soda, one gallon muriatic acid (still have most of it left), and 4 cases of 12.5% liquid chlorine @ $12.99 each. It's been the cheapest summer yet! (except for the $1100 liner )

 

[Catanzaro]

Thank you for your kind support. As much as I like the retail store, the chemicals will become more expensive. I will start with Pool School and love to learn. After I finish up this season, I will have all winter long to learn and start fresh next year. I am trying to get through my final inspections here which will take some time in the back yard & hopefully I will be finished by Christmas (Long Story), but this will get done. I plan on taking control of my pool next year and not having to constantly purchase new chemicals. Talk to everyone soon.

 

[phonedave]

Thank you for your kind support. As much as I like the retail store, the chemicals will become more expensive. I will start with Pool School and love to learn. After I finish up this season, I will have all winter long to learn and start fresh next year. I am trying to get through my final inspections here which will take some time in the back yard & hopefully I will be finished by Christmas (Long Story), but this will get done. I plan on taking control of my pool next year and not having to constantly purchase new chemicals. Talk to everyone soon.

I am up the road a bit (well an hour or so) from you.

What chemicals do I use to close my pool for the winter?

From WalMart - about 4 gallons of bleach and a box or two of Borax
From the pool store - A tub of dry acid

Frist I clean the pool very well
Then I use either the borax or dry acid to adjust my pH as needed and then the bleach to raise my FC up to shock level and let that circulate for a few hours.

Then I shut it down, close my skimmer, plug my return, pull the filter, cover it, and call it a day - done for about $15 or less.

I open to crystal clear water that technically does not need to be SLAMed (or shocked) upon opening (according to how it tests) but I do so anyway just to be sure.

During the swimming season, I use about a quart of bleach a day. I also use either the dry acid or borax if my pH gets out of whack. Every once in a while I have to throw n a puck in a floter if my CYA drifts low due to a lot of rain/backwashing/draing/splashout. That's about it. No need for algecides or any other pool store priced chemicals.

-dave

 

[RobbieH]

Does the pool company provide you the results of their tests? If so, can you post them?

 

[Catanzaro]

Does the pool company provide you the results of their tests? If so, can you post them?

I am assuming you are asking me for my results? Yes, they do provide me with results weekly. I can scan in and upload all the results, etc. or just the latest ones. If you wanted to see them maybe e-mailing them would be best. I keep excellent records. So far so good with the water. I have spent $372.39 so far YTD and have chemicals left over. Although my pool was opened in March 26th for the concrete pouring, etc. and I had starter chemicals from the company so it is hard to gauge what I would spend during the season. I know that to open and close the pool the company wants $300 and $300, which is absolutely ridiculous. I can probably find someone on the side for about $125 here in NJ to close the pool. To open the pool I can do myself, it is like opening up a sprinkler line after the winter. I have an air compressor and wet vacuum (descent ones) so I may attempt this myself. I am having difficulties with what the TFP language vs. the pool language. I have posted the latest results. This is after putting in 3 lbs. of chlorine shock.

Free Cholorine 2.7ppm
total Chlorine 2.7 ppm
Combined Chlorine 0.0 ppm
PH 7.6
Hardness 138 ppm
Alkalinity 76 ppm
Cyanuric Acid 13 ppm
Copper 0.09 ppm
Iron 0 ppm
Phosphate 125 ppb
Total Dissolved Liquids Not run

Recommended that I add 5 lb. 7.0 EZ Chlor Alkalinity up
Recommended that I add 16 lb. Calcium Elevator Hardness increaser
Turn down the Frog to 2 (currently @ 5) but filter is only running 8 hours a day instead of 10
Add 3 lb. instant pool conditioner

I asked why the Calcium and they mentioned to me about the liner (which I will not do) something about changes in the weather will help the liner. Is not the liner supposed to handle all weather conditions. What I am not understanding is how the figures change drastically as there is really not too much activity at the pool. The water is crystal clear. Hope this helps. I am still trying to understand the TFP methods vs. the pool company methods. Maybe someone can tell me what I am really looking at with these results so I do not have to keep shocking the pool, etc. I mentioned this as well that I will not shock the pool unless absolutely necessary, etc.

Thank you.

 

[jcowart]

The numbers change because pool stores usually do not have very accurate test. Case in point, I got a big sample one day and took it to 3 pools stores within 15 miles apart. I got 3 totally different results back. They are in the business to sell their chemicals. We teach what the active ingredient is in each chemical so it can be had at a fraction of the cost. The 5 lbs of alkalinity up is 100% baking soda. It can be bought for 49 cents a pound at walmart in the baking isle. The pool conditioner is your cyanuric acid. That is what protects your chlorine from UV or the sun. It also buffers the effects of your chlorine so it is also a double edge sword. Too much and the buffering will over run the chlorine that shows up. Your hardness is fine where it is. It really is not needed in a vinyl pool. They push it because it is a money maker for them. Copper causes problems in the long run. When it gets high it can cause staining including turning blonde hair green. No it's not swimming in a chlorine pool that does it, it's swimming in a chlorine pool full of copper that does it. Your iron is at 0 and that's good. Phosphates are another money maker for pool stores. TDS is a fall back that pool stores use when your CYA gets too high and you can't keep algae out. We use terms like FC for free chlorine. CC is combined chlorine. TC or total chlorine is really not used. TC is FC+CC. The TFP way should keep you with zero CC. When chlorine combines with an organic it oxidizes it. If you show CC's then your pool has some type of organics in it. It's also what causes the chlorine smell. Most think you have too much chlorine when you can smell it when really more chlorine is needed to get rid of the organics. Go to a water park in the changing room. Chlorine drips to the floor and combines with organics and makes CC's, add in lower ventilation and you get a strong smell. Right now your numbers are ok for pool store numbers. Just remember, the frog system will add more and more copper and CYA along with the chlorine it adds.

 

[Catanzaro]

Right now your numbers are ok for pool store numbers. Just remember, the frog system will add more and more copper and CYA along with the chlorine it adds.

HOW SHOULD I CORRECT THE FROG SYSTEM? Lower the settings? I will be purchasing the test kit this week so I can and start moving in on this.

 

[jcowart]

The frog uses stabilized chlorine. It is stabilized with cyanuric acid. The more chlorine packs you run the more cya is put into the pool. Same with the mineral and algae pack side. More copper is added. I would suggest to take the packs out and not use them or take the entire frog out and sell it on eBay or craigslist. Then use liquid chlorine. Household bleach is the same chemical. Without a good test kit it's useless. What we teach is chemical additions based on accurate test. The pool store way and the troublefreepool way do not mix. You will need to decide for your self. Then the first step is a test kit. The tf-100 best bang for the buck or the Taylor k-2006. Then start with pool school at the top of the web page. Take it in small chunks, it really is easy to grasp. And ask questions, we all started out blind. Btw... I was sold on the frog also. I ran it until my free packs ran out.

 

[RobbieH]

If these numbers are accurate (or at least close), here are my comments:

Free Cholorine 2.7ppm - This is OK for now, and fine as long as it doesn't drop much below this. If you raise CYA, this will have to come up some.
total Chlorine 2.7 ppm
Combined Chlorine 0.0 ppm - This is good
PH 7.6 - No adjustment necessary
Hardness 138 ppm - Fine for vinyl pool
Alkalinity 76 ppm - This is a good number
Cyanuric Acid 13 ppm - This is quite low. You should be in the 30-40 ppm range to keep FC from dropping too fast.
Copper 0.09 ppm - Watch those Frog mineral packs, they are going to drive this up.
Iron 0 ppm - Good!
Phosphate 125 ppb - We don't care about phosphates
Total Dissolved Liquids Not run- That's fine, we really don't care about TDS

 

[Catanzaro]

Cyanuric Acid 13 ppm - This is quite low. You should be in the 30-40 ppm range to keep FC from dropping too fast.

Assuming this is all I need to fix. How do I do this. Thank you for your patience. A new one @ this pool stuff. And should I turn the frog down with regards to the level.