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Thread: NO FC, don't know what to do

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    NO FC, don't know what to do

    A novice here...

    Test results yesterday 7/28/14

    FC 0
    PH 8+
    Acid demand test required 34 drops of R0005
    TA 250 ppm
    CH 20 ppm
    CYA 67 ppm

    I added 30 oz of 6% bleach
    I added 7lbs PH minus
    I don't have the chemical to adjust hardness yet

    Today: 7/29/14

    FC 0
    PH 8+
    had to had 15 drops of R0005 for acid test
    TA 225
    CH 20 ppm
    CYA 52-53 ppm

    I don't understand why I keep having 0 FC after I have added some bleach. I have CYA.

    I'm working on getting the PH to normal and I am going to buy the Hardness increaser today.

    What am I doing wrong?
    Bestway AG July 2014
    4200 gallons
    Flowclear sand filter 1500 gallons single speed
    Taylor K2006 test kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    For a vinyl pool, low CH does not matter. Don't water your money.

    There are only 2 things that consume chlorine: The sun and organics in the water. With your CYA level (if it is to be believed since it appears to be from a pool store and we do not trust pool store testing), losing all the FC in one day is unlikely. So, you must have something in the pool consuming the FC. The solution is following the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process which requires one of the Recommended Test Kits.

    Please start by reading the ABCs of Water Chemistry in Pool School so that we are talking the same language.
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Thanks for the quick response! Thanks for the tip with the CH!

    I am using the Taylor K2006 test kit. I was testing the CYA by watching the 'black dot' disappear as I filled the receptical. Is that correct?

    I shocked my pool a few days after I filled it a couple weeks ago. I used IN THE SWIM pool shock. It has calcium Hypoclorite 68%. What product should I use to SLAM it?
    Bestway AG July 2014
    4200 gallons
    Flowclear sand filter 1500 gallons single speed
    Taylor K2006 test kit

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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Quote Originally Posted by michelewa View Post
    I shocked my pool a few days after I filled it a couple weeks ago. I used IN THE SWIM pool shock. It has calcium Hypoclorite 68%. What product should I use to SLAM it?
    Bleach or liquid chlorine!
    Have you read PoolSchool yet? Do you understand what the different chemicals are and how they're properly used? It can be an eye opener when you read it and realize you DON'T need most of the bottles, bags or potions that the pool store would like to sell you. PoolSchool gives YOU the knowledge to manage your pool easily.
    We're all here to help but you have to do some homework on your own too, capisce?
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Yes that is correct, but usually you average out to the nearest 10ppm ... there is no way the CYA should have dropped like that though unless you replaced a lot of water.

    You should use liquid chlorine to SLAM the pool, or you could use some cal-hypo since your CH is so low. Review the process.

    Also check these out:
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Welcome to TFP.

    It is recommended here to use bleach for "SLAMing" your pool. Once you spent enough time learning on this site from pool school and the forums you will know enough to answer that question for yourself. By that I mean....other products aren't always bad but the add often undesirable chemicals to the mix. Until you know enough to answer your own question by knowing if you need this biproducts......stick with bleach.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Thank you everyone for your responses. I have read pool school and I'm learning and trying to understand all this.
    Bestway AG July 2014
    4200 gallons
    Flowclear sand filter 1500 gallons single speed
    Taylor K2006 test kit

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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    It may take a couple of reads......no worries. That is normal.

    If it makes you feel any better I found this site in a clueless panic in 2011 about a month after our build. Everyone came out of the pool with red eyes and irritated skin. All I had at the time were (worthless) test strips. They were enough to tell me my PH was way too low. A googling I went and here I landed. I remedied that situation after hours of reading by sending hubby out to the grocery for borax for the pool. "Are you sure you know what you're doing?" He asked. No...but I was doing more than him. Closed the pool not long after that and bought TF100 test kit prior to opening the next year. Been testing and dosing myself since then..

    You said you have the k2006 test kit. That is a good start. Keep testing and get used to trusting your results. Ask questions here and you should be good to go.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    So why is his pH so high?
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    The pH is likely high due to very high TA combined with aeration which will quickly drive up pH. Continued dosing with Muriatic acid will keep the pH in range while lowering TA.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Quote Originally Posted by markuszoom5 View Post
    So why is his pH so high?
    Great question....looks like the high TA is driving it up.

    To the OP, you need to get the pH down. If it's reading over 8.2, who knows how high it actually is. Target 7.8, dose, then retest 30 min later. Keep doing this until pH is between 7.5 and 7.8. If you're comfortable working with it, full strength muriatic acid is the fastest, cheapest way to get your pH down. That high TA number will constantly, and quickly, make the pH in your pool rise, so plan on frequent acid additions to keep pH in line.

    If any of that sounded like gibberish, please ask questions.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Quote Originally Posted by michelewa View Post
    I am using the Taylor K2006 test kit. I was testing the CYA by watching the 'black dot' disappear as I filled the receptical. Is that correct?

    I shocked my pool a few days after I filled it a couple weeks ago. I used IN THE SWIM pool shock. It has calcium Hypoclorite 68%. What product should I use to SLAM it?
    Welcome to the forum

    TFTestkits CYA how to test video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxaqoW-_MCs Works the same with a K-2006

    You should be using liquid bleach or liquid pool shock (also bleach) to adjust your daily maintenance FC level and to do the SLAM. Bags of "shock" usually add other things like CYA you don't really want to add.

    I would suggest going to 7.2 on the pH as it's going to rise anyway and your eyes appreciate a 7.2 - 7.4 range. I get my muriatic acid at Menards but Home Depot, local hardware store .... It was 4.99 a gal last time I grabbed some. Much less expensive than some "pH Down" product !!
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    When you go to compare cost of bleach or pool shock all you care about is the cost per oz of the chlorine. Bleach will come in different bottle sizes and different strengths, 6% 8% 12.5% ... so it's hard to compare to find out if you are getting a "deal". Using this calculator - > http://poncatechsquad.com/Dan/Chlorine/ will help you know if the Clorox or Great Value at Walmart is cheaper or more expensive than the Pool shock at Fleet Farm or what might be at a local hardware store or Aldi or your supermarket. Some pool stores sell liquid and have a refillable 2.5 or 5 gal container. Sometimes because they are selling in bulk and the container is refillable it's a really good deal but they seem to be few and far between
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    So why not just use pucks temporarily while maintaining shock level since the CYA is not that high, and that will lower the ph over time anyway, so acid will not be needed.
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Because people who are new to the TFPC method often have a hard time taking care of one parameter at a time, let alone the 3 that are in play when you use pucks.

    Even for experienced TFPC'ers, you don't want the other parameters moving during a SLAM.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Quote Originally Posted by markuszoom5 View Post
    So why not just use pucks temporarily while maintaining shock level since the CYA is not that high, and that will lower the ph over time anyway, so acid will not be needed.
    In addition to what Smy said, the OP's CYA is already apparently higher than the recommended range? So why make it worse?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: NO FC, don't know what to do

    Unless he has a SWG he's already at the top end of recommended CYA, 30-50 and his posts put him at 50 to 70 between his two tests. Granted it is a smaller pool so dumping water and diluting a high CYA isn't as much of a problem but why mess with it when it's just cleaner and easier to do it the TFPC way

    Save the tablets for vacation or when they'll be gone for a few days and can't add chlorine and they could be handy to keep FC up even if adding CYA and changing pH.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
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