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Thread: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

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    No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Hi everyone,

    First time poster, with a few questions so this is a long and fairly detailed post!

    Some background:

    I recently bought a house with an in-ground pool that was clear for a few days but turned green quite quickly.

    So, I shocked the pool, added some muratic acid and some stabilizer and started to bring the color from green back to a white-ish blue pretty quickly.

    About a week later (and 24/7 filtering incl. hosing out filter once or twice a day), the water was clear to the bottom in the shallow end (about 3 ft) and I could see the plug in the deep end but not crystal clear (about 6 ft deep).

    I then bought a "Kreepy Krawly" to start to vacuum out the dead algae and to leave on while I'm not at home. It worked for 10 ft long stretches but would then just kind of stop, and it wasn't due to the pool hose being too short or anything like that..... plus I was manually taking the filter out and hosing it off, so there was no issue with the filter, skimmer basket or pump basket being blocked.

    So, thinking that it's just a piece of junk, to remedy that problem I decided to just buy a manual vacuum, which I attached to a long pole and started to just vacuum manually.

    The skimmer that the vacuum hoses go into is a two-hole skimmer and so I use the hole that has the most suction and start to try and vacuum out the debris. After watching some youTube videos for comparison, my vacuum doesn't vacuum up anywhere near as much as the videos that I have seen. Not even close. In fact, it looks like the wheels on the bottom of the vacuum make more of an impact. All that seems to happen is that it stirs up the dead algae, making the pool cloudy again!

    So, I pull the vacuum head to just below the surface to check for suction and while it's not like a carpet vacuum, there is definitely "some" suction happening....

    The hoses are not blocked, so what am I missing here?

    Also, my spa is sort of built into the side of the pool and that is where the freshly filtered water goes first, before flowing into the main pool. The problem is that as soon as I start the vacuuming process, after about 3-4 minutes, the spa water turns a dark green/brown.... So, I turn off the pump and pull the filter out to hose it. Sure enough, it's dirty, but not black. So, I hose it out again but still have the issue of the unfiltered water getting into the spa.... and eventually into the main pool (there are 3-4 outlets spread around the pool that allow filtered water to enter into the main pool, aside from the spa overflow).

    I think the problem is that too much of the dead algae (it looks like it's dusted all over the bottom of the pool) is getting picked up by the vacuum and is too much for the filter to process - even though to my eye, the vacuum is barely making an impact on the floor of the pool as I run it over the bottom. Am I wrong?

    After watching all this, I went to the area where I have the pump and plumbing setup, only to find that I don't have a multi-valve anywhere on the system. Only a pump, the filter, the clear sight-glass thing with the filter basket, another bread plate shaped slight glass that looks like a multi-valve "maybe should be there but isn't" and then three valves... one of which, I cannot fully turn off as the genius that put it in, installed it so close to the other plumbing that the handle hits the pipes preventing full shut off....

    I also cannot find a dump pipe that would usually run into a main yard drain in the back yard. I used to have a setup at another house I lived in, and would just set the multivalve to "backwash" and as soon as I started the pump up, water would pour out of that pipe and discard it into the drain located underneath it (perfect for getting rid of dirty water while vacuuming!).

    So, short of calling out a pool guy, I'm trying to figure out what setup they have installed on this pool (mid 80's pool from what I can tell) and if there is something that I'm missing here that someone else might know about, as I want to swim in my pool!

    It also seems like I have a pool leak in the skimmer plastic by the looks of it (tested with the dye kit) but I will deal with later..... I am hoping to sort this issue out as I'm using 5-7.5 gallons of liquid chlorine a week just to keep the algae in check.

    Any help &/or guidance is appreciated!

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Welcome to the forum.
    To help you we will need some information
    The size of your pool in gallons
    tell us if it's vinyl, plaster/pebble, or fiberglass
    The type filter you have (sand, DE, cartridge)
    If you know, tell us the make and model of your pump and filter.
    • List any other equipment you have: SWG, second pump, etc.

    Also if you can post some pics of your pump, filter and plumbing that will be extremely helpful in getting you on your way to a clear pool.
    Mark
    IG plaster, 22,000 gallon, Jacuzzi Laser Sand filter

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Hi,

    Thanks for responding, Mark.

    • In-ground cement pool
    • About 12,000 gallons
    • Cartridge filter
    • Not sure of the pump and filter make/model. I can check when I get home though along with some pics.
    • Also not sure what SWG stand for, but I do not have a second pump. Just the one pump and a single skimmer box.


    I will revert later tonight!

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    SWG = Salt Water Generator. Another way of keeping chlorine in the pool.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Here are some pics (first batch):





    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    As far as I know cartridge filters dont have backwash capabilities.. the idea is just to take them out and hose them off as needed. What test kit do you have and what are your levels on the pool?
    12k - free form - plaster- Nautilus fns48 DE filter- centurion 1hp (so quiet)- In floor cleaning system with Jandy Caretaker - TF-50 and 5 in 1 test kit, Phoenix, Az

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Any details on the cartridge filter? What is the pressure when you run it right after cleaning it? What is the pressure right before you clean it? It should not be letting dirty water through...

    You cannot backwash a cartridge filter like you can with a DE or sand filter. Backwashing simply makes no sense given the way they are made and the way they work. Very few installations add a valve to allow pumping to "waste", bypassing the cartridge filter when vacuuming, so if you're not seeing anything like that, you likely don't have it.
    Outdoor 14,000 gallon IG plaster pool built in 2000 with spillover spa, 2 hp WhisperFlo pump with MagneTek motor, Sta-Rite cartridge pool filter with 300 ft2 filtration area and 0.33 gpm/ft2 filtration rate, Aquabot Rapids 4WD robotic pool cleaner, Raypak digital gas heater, and Intermatic mechanical timer located in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Here are some more pics:











    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Nuvene,

    That makes sense and is exactly what I've been doing so far.

    I have a regular store-bought kit.... with the little vials of drops and the plastic test tubes with the color indicators next to them.

    I haven't tested it today, but since yesterday, I added 5 gallons of liquid chlorine and it started to turn back to the milky-blue color (from light green).

    Last time I tested it, alkalinity was within range, ph was a little high, almost no chlorine.... which is weird as this pool seems to guzzle chlorine. I also just added a full bucket of stabilizer @ the suggestion of my local pool store (Leslie's).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Danacc,

    Not sure what you mean. I added a pic just a few minutes ago of the filter housing but I think the moderators have to look at the post since I'm new to the forum.

    It's just a regular filter—about 4 ft tall, about as round as a dinner plate. I'm not sure of the brand or what material is used for the actual filter. It seems to hose out pretty easily.

    The pressure gauge is broken just due to old age. I do need to order a new one. Although, where does it go? The current one is at the base of the filter housing, while there seems to be a spot for it on the cap of the filter housing (which is currently plugged with a kind of plastic bolt that was there when I bought the cap (the old one was broken, so I bought a new cap and a new rubber seal) ).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi JMbradwell,

    I haven't heard of those before. I will have to research them online. At the moment, I'm just using liquid chlorine and sometimes I'll drop a couple of chlorine tablets in the skimmer basket.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Pools with algae will guzzle chlorine. It sounds like you need to follow the SLAM process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl

    Before you start, you'll need a test kit that can tell you your CYA level and also read higher chlorine levels than your current kit. Here are some recommended kits: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...its-comparison

    Brushing and vacuuming are part of the process, so you'll also need to get that filter problem figured out. I don't know enough to help you with that, but I'm sure someone will be along who can provide some guidance.
    Outdoor 14,000 gallon IG plaster pool built in 2000 with spillover spa, 2 hp WhisperFlo pump with MagneTek motor, Sta-Rite cartridge pool filter with 300 ft2 filtration area and 0.33 gpm/ft2 filtration rate, Aquabot Rapids 4WD robotic pool cleaner, Raypak digital gas heater, and Intermatic mechanical timer located in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Hi, welcome to TFP! It looks like you may have an infloor pool cleaning system. The low, round thing is a Master Pools 5 port Turboclean actuator valve. If the system is working properly, when you turn it on little round sprayers will pop up a couple of inches from the bottom of the pool and spray the debris toward the main drain. From there debris gets sucked into the filter.

    Is there a label on the tall, skinny filter? Have you opened it up and taken the cartridge out? If the cartridge is not filtering well and you have cleaned it, it may need to be replaced. The pressure gauge also should be replaced. You need to track the rise in pressure to know when it is time to clean the filter. It is also helpful when diagnosing other pool problems.

    How big was the bucket of stabilizer? Did you add it all at once by broadcasting it into the pool? Your pool is eating chlorine because the chlorine is used up killing the algae. You will need to complete the SLAM process to clear your pool. In order to complete the slam process you will need a high quality FAS/DPD test kit such as the Taylor K2006 or the TF100 . These kits will enable you to test high levels of chlorine needed to complete the slam process.

    Do you have a set of current test results you can post? If you tested the CYA/stabilizer prior to adding a bucket of the stuff please post it here.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    hopefully that bucket of stabalizer doesnt put your CYA too high... otherwise you are just going to have to drain some water to get it back to a working level...
    12k - free form - plaster- Nautilus fns48 DE filter- centurion 1hp (so quiet)- In floor cleaning system with Jandy Caretaker - TF-50 and 5 in 1 test kit, Phoenix, Az

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Thanks for the responses everyone. I will test the pool tomorrow and get back to everyone.

    Zea3-I can't tell if the system is working or not as I haven't gotten into the pool since I bought the house (!) and it's hard to tell if anything is popping up from the pool edge and hazy water.

    The cartridge seems to be trapping a lot, as every time I clean it out a LOT of green-colored water comes out of it. I will definitely get the pressure gauge.

    The bucket of stabilizer was about the size of a KFC bucket of chicken. I can't remember the size as I pitched the bucket, but I "think" it was 32 pounds.

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    If you put 32 pounds of CYA in your pool you will have raised it by 320 ppm. The recommended range for your pool is 30-50ppm.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    No way it was 32 pounds ... it was probably 8 pounds. Which still added WAY too much CYA ... please stop listening to the pool store.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    If it was 4lbs and you started with 0 in the pool then you should be ok. If it was 8lbs you added too much. Thinking about it further, a 32 lb bucket of CYA would be a lot larger than a bucket of chicken!
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    You can get a really nice gauge from the people who sell the test kits - > http://tftestkits.net/Pressure-Gauge...Mount-p77.html
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3 View Post
    If you put 32 pounds of CYA in your pool you will have raised it by 320 ppm. The recommended range for your pool is 30-50ppm.
    Thank you Zea, I appreciate the info.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    You can get a really nice gauge from the people who sell the test kits - > http://tftestkits.net/Pressure-Gauge...Mount-p77.html
    Thanks kiss4afrog, I actually picked up a gauge this past weekend and installed it as soon as I got home.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3 View Post
    If it was 4lbs and you started with 0 in the pool then you should be ok. If it was 8lbs you added too much. Thinking about it further, a 32 lb bucket of CYA would be a lot larger than a bucket of chicken!
    I believe it was an 8 lb bucket.

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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    The pressure is about 10psi when the system starts running with a totally clean filter (well, as clean as I can get it - nice and white after being hosed out) and after a full 2 days of filtering (turns on at 8am shuts off at 6 pm) it's at about 12 psi.

    Test Results (using my basic, two cylinder set with the colored bars next to each tube):

    • Chlorine : 4.0 to 5.0
    • Acid : clear after 20+ drops
    • Alkalinity : Darker than 8.2
    • Bromide : About 8.0


    The water is now much clearer (again) and I can see the main plug in the deep end, albeit a bit cloudy. Shallow end is quite clear.... still not crystal but if I get a big glass of sample water, it's as clear as tap water.

    The problem I'm still having is how to get rid of all of the dead algae at the bottom of the pool. Whenever I sweep it (and the sides), it creates plumes of "algae dust" in the water, making it instantly cloudy. If I try to hand vacuum it out, some of it still gets past the filter and makes it's way back into the return water.

    The filter seems to be in good to very good condition (I compared to the local pool store this past weekend) and is the right size for the housing it is in.

    Any help is appreciated and I thank all of you for responding and your help.

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Those results make no sense. Your pH is above 8.2 not TA. And I am not sure what the acid drops you are using are for. And you do not have bromine in your pool.

    Do you have a test kit on the way yet?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: No Backwash Option & No Multi-Valve On IG Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Those results make no sense. Your pH is above 8.2 not TA. And I am not sure what the acid drops you are using are for. And you do not have bromine in your pool.

    Do you have a test kit on the way yet?
    Re the bromide, okay. I was just trying to follow the instructions that came with the kit, which said to test for it. Great! Saves me from having to test for it in the future.

    Other kit is not on it's way yet. New house, renovations and new baby. But it will be soon.

    The test tube has "pH & ACID DEMAND" written on it. I was using the Number 3 drops that come with the kit (like the way the manual explained to do) to determine the pH level. I misinterpreted that. My mistake. Either way, the drops didn't change the color.

    Is that enough to at least get me in the ballpark until the kit is purchased and arrives?

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