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Thread: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice needed.

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    Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice needed.

    Hello everyone, here is my initial thread on my 50 year old concrete pool and includes pictures of the current pool shape:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ld-gunite-pool

    I have been talking to a pool repairman, pool refinisher, and concrete professional.

    The estimate for tearing up the old decking ($2941.50), installing new decking (stamped concrete $11,100) and pool coping lip rub out ($960) comes out to $15,000. There is also a nearby patio that is falling apart that will be $5000. The restoration guy has talked with the pool repair person who is familiar with the pool and works with the concrete company and hasn't seen the pool yet, but estimated about $10,000. I'm going to get him out so I can get a true estimate.

    Decking and coping: $15,000
    Patio: $5,000
    Pool resurfacing and tile: $10,000
    Fencing: $4,000 (we have two young daughters so this is a must, even though we already have a fence around the yard)
    New pump: $1000
    TOTAL: $35,000

    Does this sound about right for a 20x40' pool? It is a bit more than I was expecting, but I figure it will be really nice and should last a long time hopefully without repair. We would have to finance this with a home equity loan, we currently have 20% equity in our house (about $67,000).

    Even though this is Cincinnati, Ohio, I have compared other houses in the neighborhood with pools and they are all pending, so I do think this repair would add value to house (maybe $15-20,000), but we plan on living here for another 20 plus years so not too much of an issue. However, I do have to consider that I think we would add more value if we were to take the $35,000 and say remove the pool and redo the kitchen (about 30 years outdated).

    I'm torn, we weren't initially looking for a house with a pool, but we loved the house and the location and it happend to come with a pool. Now I've really gotten accustomed to the idea of having a pool, but I have to admit the costs were more than I was expecting. I'm not opposed to the pool maintenance (I was a lifeguard in college so I do have some limited experience), but still unsure of the monthly expenses. We do have a safety cover and the pool has a heater that also doesn't work. I'd plan on just removing the heater as I wouldn't want to pay for heating the pool in the colder months.

    Also, if we are doing all this work, should we go ahead and invest now in a salt water system?

    Any experience, advice, or words of support would be appreciated!
    Scott
    50 year old, newly remodeled in-ground 20x40' pool (approx 30,000 gallons)
    1.5 hp Hayward pump and 20 gpm/ft2 sand filter (62 gpm filtration&backwash), 50psi max working pressure

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    If you plan on staying, I'd recommend going with one of the higher-end finishes in the pool. It'll cost more initially, but should last a lot longer. Our replaster alone was over $10,000.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Where to spend your money. I think any investment you make in renovations today will likely lose all its value in 20 years when you think you might sell. You might try asking your Realtor which one they think would return the most value if you had to sell.
    16x32 DiamondBrite kidney, 12,500 gal. (circa 1985) 3/4hp Hayward SII, Harmsco BF84, Taylor K-2006, Hayward SwimPure Plus / Tcell-15
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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    So let me get this straight...you're asking a pro-pool forum if you should keep your pool?

    LOL! I'm just joking around with you!

    My understanding is that a pool (in any condition) reduces the value of a house because of the perceived maintenance costs. Perhaps this is incorrect in your area, but I have heard it from real estate agents down south here. However, I think when compared to the value-add of renovating the kitchen it is no contest, a new kitchen will win every time. I wouldn't let that stop me though if you plan to stay in the house as you said. Also, you could do the kitchen later on once the pool is paid for.

    You should consider what the pool will be used for. Are you the type of people who have friends over or lots of parties, and will use the pool to entertain? Or is it simply to have a relaxing place for the family to spend time together. Maybe a mix of both? My point is a pool isn't going to magically transform your house into "party central", your lifestyle will be pretty much the same unless you change it. Given that, is the cost of fixing and maintaining the pool worth it?

    I'm not telling you what to do, just giving you food for thought. However, should you decide to keep the pool you have found the right place to help you run it.

    Regards,

    Tad
    33K gal vinyl IG, 1.5 HP SuperFlo pump, Hayward S244T sand filter (62GPM)

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Quote Originally Posted by ulrichsd View Post
    ...I think we would add more value if we were to take the $35,000 and say remove the pool and redo the kitchen (about 30 years outdated).
    Don't assume that removing the pool is cheap...it can be very expensive depending on local codes. Some areas let you just demo it into a pile set down in the hole and fill it up with dirt, but others will require some or even all of the material to be removed. It is not necessarily a cheap option.
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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Quote Originally Posted by DogsHouse_MyPool View Post
    Where to spend your money. I think any investment you make in renovations today will likely lose all its value in 20 years when you think you might sell. You might try asking your Realtor which one they think would return the most value if you had to sell.
    The answer to that is "depends on the buyer". Overall a kitchen will win every time, and a pool can hurt the value of a home where the buyer doesn't want a pool, but you get the right person and it'll help the value. Just depends. Or as I usually post, YMMV.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    I think a pool up north might lose value but in Florida, I would have to say no...I lived up north and wouldn't think of putting in a pool, you have 9 months of winter, and 3 months of bad sledding.

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    I am a Realtor, so I can definitely tell you that a pool adds no value to your home. In fact, it is a detriment when you go to sell it. However, if you love having an oasis in your backyard, then that pool is invaluable to you! From a strictly investment point of view, your money is better spent on something else. A new kitchen and bathrooms will add more value to your home than a pool. On the other hand, the enjoyment and relaxation of going home and sitting by the pool is priceless. I think you see where I am going here. If you have the money and want a pool, it is well worth it. If your cash is tight and you are turning the house as an investment, it is not. Good luck!!
    16,000 gallon Oval Vinyl Liner Pool (new liner 2014)
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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    A pool is a bad idea up north. I have one, just bought the house in March. Love to swim in it, would never buy a new one though. Lady spent over $30 k 10 years ago for her kids, then she got divorced. I was able to haggle down the house due to pool. I hate the upkeep but love swimming in it. I will most likely keep it for another 10 years and then when I put in a new liner and that one blows I will probably fill it in. For value of home, fill in the pool and landscape. For your own personal desire, keep the pool if you don't mind spending $40 k. Good luck!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh did I say, I don't trust timers with the pump,disconnected mine. So I have to start the pump in PM and stop it in AM every day before work. But at least it's only for 3 months.
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice...

    One other point to consider is that you are considering using a debt instrument (the HELOC) to pay for a major pool renovation that will, in all likelihood, add no resale value to your asset, the home.

    Therefore your $35k renovation will really be $35k PLUS interest spread out over the life of the HELOC. Depending on the terms and conditions, that can be thousands of dollars in interest paid on the $35k principal. You'll also need a current appraisal of your home which may or may not directly cost you money (depends on the bank, some pay it for you)

    I know bankers love to sell HELOCs by saying what a great value they are and how you get to write the interest off your taxes, but the actual tax benefit is almost inconsequential for most people. The deductible tax from a HELOC is typically another line item on your lenders interest statement for the year which means your primary mortgage interest is treated first as a deduction and then other forms of property interest deductions (2nd homes, etc) are treated with less deductibility. In other words, even if you pay $1000 worth of interest on that HELOC, not all of it will likely be tax deductible. All of this really depends on your AGI and the size of your mortgage. So the sale line for a HELOC that the interest is tax deductible depends a lot on your personal financial circumstances.

    And all of that interest goes right to the bank - a good deal for them but little benefit to you. Also, not sure if you mentioned it or not, but if you haven't lived in the home for 12 months making regular, on-time mortgage payments, I'm pretty sure most lenders won't give you a HELOC as a choice. Don't know exactly as details vary a lot with lenders, but when we wanted to do some renovation work on our newly purchased home, our lender would not give us a HELOC until after a years worth of mortgage payments and we had about 30% equity in our home when we purchased it.

    Just some financial thoughts for you.


    ---UPDATE---

    How about thinking about it like this - your HELOC will be a monthly debt payment just like a credit card bill. So, would you rather put that money into a pool (something you'll only use for short Eastern swim seasons) OR for an interior renovation like the kitchen (which you will use all the time)? When the bill comes due every month, which thing will make you more happy to pay the bill?






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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Well said, I agree with above statement. I enjoy my pool for the sole reason that I can swim in a body of water. It was there with the house. I would never build one and find it outrageous that majority of people in my neighborhood built their own. But I guess if you did not earn it on your back, the nothing is expensive.
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their suggestions and honest opion. It is a difficult decision as the repairs are more than we were expecting.

    1. Regarding the loan, I don't expect us to have a problem. At my last house I had a home equity loan and the bank was willing to give us a loan as long as we retained 10% equity in the house. The house overall was pretty neglected and we have done a lot of work to the house over the last 3 months that has added some equity as well when it would come time for appraisal for the loan. We bought our house for a lot less than we were approved for. So we could have paid more and gotten a house with a well maintained pool, either we'd still be paying interest on either the primary mortgage vs the heloc. We knew the pool was going to need work when we bought the house, its just ended up being more than anticipating.

    2. Regarding the home value, while I don't think it will completely pay for itself, I do think it has to add some value as having a huose with a newly refinished pool has be worth more than a house with an old, dilapidated, unmaintained pool. We were one of 3 offers on this house the first day it went on the market and I feel we got a good deal as it was priced low based on the fact that it needed a some work.

    3. Regarding removing the pool, it will probably be $10,000 including the filling and reseeding. Plus we'd still have to replace the patio for $5000, so it is really comparing 15,000 to take it out (we'd still have to take a loan) vs $35,000 to make it nice.

    5. Tad, I laughed out loud at your comment regarding posting on a pool forum about tearing out a pool, but I did manage to get a few people in favor of removal! We are not expecting party central here, but more a way for family bonding time together. However, both my brother and my wife's brothers family want us to keep it!

    6. We'll need to get another quote and maybe look at other ways we can get the price down - maybe we could talk to the company that put down the pebble coat and see if they can patch where it is coming up. It wouldn't be pretty but if we were to do that and see if we can fix the inisde cracks instead of a full resurface we could get away with under $5000 and see how we like having the pool for a few years before going all in.

    I really appreciate all of the comments, both for an against, its nice to have the advice of people who have been in similar situations!
    Thanks!
    Scott
    50 year old, newly remodeled in-ground 20x40' pool (approx 30,000 gallons)
    1.5 hp Hayward pump and 20 gpm/ft2 sand filter (62 gpm filtration&backwash), 50psi max working pressure

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    Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice...

    3. Regarding removing the pool, it will probably be $10,000 including the filling and reseeding. Plus we'd still have to replace the patio for $5000, so it is really comparing 15,000 to take it out (we'd still have to take a loan) vs $35,000 to make it nice.
    How much would nice above ground pool cost you with a little decking?

    One scary thought to consider, given the pools age, is that the gunite shell could be cracked as well as the pebble coating.

    You could rip out the old junker, fill and seed the area and install a nice AGP. That way you have the option in the future of removing the AGP if you think it's no value in a sale. Plus, in the north east, AGPs make way more sense in my opinion (but I'm sure other members will have exact opposite opinion about that)



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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice...

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyOptimism View Post
    You could rip out the old junker, fill and seed the area and install a nice AGP. That way you have the option in the future of removing the AGP if you think it's no value in a sale. Plus, in the north east, AGPs make way more sense in my opinion (but I'm sure other members will have exact opposite opinion about that)
    Thanks for the idea, but I'm not sure it would be any more cost efficient to pay $10,000 to remove the pool and then pay to put in an above ground pool... I think the lower cost option for us might be to see if we can put a vinyl liner in the pool instead of resurfacing and/or reduce the decking area.

    I went to someone's house I know with a pool, there's is a 30 year old vinyl pool and they put in a new liner ($1500 plus install) about a few years ago along with new concrete decking for $18,000.

    I've decided I'd like to keep the pool budget at least under $25,000, so I'm thinking I could reduce the footprint of the decking. Right now it is 6' decking on the long sides and 9' on either side of the deep and short ends. If I were to reduce these to just 5' and 7' decking , it would go from $15,000 to $12,500 for the decking. Add $10,000 for the resurface, $500 for the pump and I can put in the fencing myself for $2000. If we were to go with the liner I'm guessing maybe it would be $5000 with install instead of $10,000 for the resurfacing, but would need to get an estimate. I'd wait a few years to do the patio concrete until we have all this paid off.

    So does anyone have any reason why switching this to a vinyl liner would be a bad idea? His pool was 18x36' and had stairs as well, similar so I would think it would be possible.

    Thanks everyone!
    Scott
    50 year old, newly remodeled in-ground 20x40' pool (approx 30,000 gallons)
    1.5 hp Hayward pump and 20 gpm/ft2 sand filter (62 gpm filtration&backwash), 50psi max working pressure

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Being a spoiled Arizonan, I know nothing of vinyl liners. Everything out here is plaster and PebbleTek.

    Doesn't hurt to get a quote but I suppose a new vinyl install with preping the shell to hold the liner in place is going to cost more than installing new vinyl in a pool that was already outfitted with a vinyl liner from the get-go.

    Let's us know how it goes, I'd be very interested in hearing what you come up with.

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    I did a little research and it sounds like it is definitely a lot of work to get the pool converted to fit a liner including changing fittings for the drain, inputs, etc.

    I'm having the pool resurfacer out later this week to give me a real estimate, so we'll see how that is and probably reduce the decking size to keep it around $22-25k.

    I see you have the raised spa with spillway, love the look of those... tempted to ask the concrete guy how much it would cost to add one of those

    Thanks!
    50 year old, newly remodeled in-ground 20x40' pool (approx 30,000 gallons)
    1.5 hp Hayward pump and 20 gpm/ft2 sand filter (62 gpm filtration&backwash), 50psi max working pressure

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    I dunno, I'm feeling like there's a dump truck full of fill-sand in your future....tennis court??

    Well, let us know what the resurfacing guys say. It's a tough slog to rehabilitate an old pool, so you definitely have your work cut out for you.

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    Re: Received estimates to repair 20'x40' foot, 50 year old concrete pool. Advice nee

    Hi everyone, just an update as I received an estimate for the pool resurfacing this weekend:

    $8,400 diamondbrite resurfacing
    $3,840 tile replacement
    $900 pump replacement
    The estimate covers 15% plaster replacement and would be a max additional $2500 (worst case scenario) depening on how much plaster needs replaced

    I reduced the concrete area to 5' on each side, with 10' in the shallow end by the stairs and that brought the price to:
    $12,800 decking, removal and coping
    $4,900 patio replacement

    TOTAL = $30,840 - $33,340

    I have secured a home equity loan for up to 90% value of the home ($33,000) to do the work.

    It would have been $10,000 to remove the pool, backfill, lay grass, and we would still would need to fix the patio ($4900), so it came down to the decision to spend an extra $15,000-$18,000 to have the pool vs removing the pool.

    We are doing the repairs this fall, I will update with progress.

    Thanks!
    Scott

    Edit: We are not doing the aluminum fencing due to cost. We already have chain link fencing that is up to code around the backyard, but for safety concerns (dogs and small children), I'm going to build a wood fence myself around the pool area that will match the deck.

    Also, I talked with the top selling realtor in our area, and she said she has done well selling houses with pools right now, so just a little piece of mind... I'm guessing luxury items tend to do better in a good economy and not so great during a recession.
    50 year old, newly remodeled in-ground 20x40' pool (approx 30,000 gallons)
    1.5 hp Hayward pump and 20 gpm/ft2 sand filter (62 gpm filtration&backwash), 50psi max working pressure

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