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Thread: New pool in Phoenix

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    New pool in Phoenix

    Please do not double post. I deleted the other thread. Thanks, jblizzle

    I'm going to be putting in a pool in the East Valley (Chandler) and I'm intrigued by the prospect of DIY with subcontractors. Our old pool was built with Paddock and we want the same design with just a couple minor tweaks. I've seen several of you have done this and I was wondering if it's something that's manageable by 2 people who work full time? Plus I have no idea where to look for a designer or subcontractors other than craigslist or the phone book. How do you make sure that the subs are all on the same page about the work that's being done and coordinate the times? Is it worth it?

    We've gotten a bid already from a guy that was recommended by the pool store guy that we trust. His bid is actually slightly cheaper than what we spent on the original build with Paddock. I'm wondering how much I'd really be saving. Our budget is around 35k. I compared that to the guy in vegas that's building a pool of similar size and it looks like his final price is going to be close to the bid I was given.

    The pool is 30x11 that goes from 3.5 feet to 6.5 feet with a 10x12 tanning shelf. We are using DE for the filter and adding a water shear and 2 scuppers on a side wall. We're also putting in a gas heater, a chiller, an ozonator, and 2 LED lights. One complaint we had with Paddock is that they used a junky ozonator and they hooked it straight into the pump drain. I'll be changing that with this pool and making sure they hook up a good one correctly.

    Our old pool had 1 pump that ran everything, but I'm wondering if I might want to add another pump because of the chiller. With water flowing through the chiller, we can only run the pump at full speed so it's either on or off. Would it be better to run one pump for the filter and have everything else running off another pump? That way I can run the filter pump at low speed all the time and turn on the other pump when I want to run the heater/chiller/water features.

    Here's a picture of the pool
    pool.jpg

    Here's the water features
    waterfall.jpg

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Ozone and UV systems are a waste of money for outdoor private pools ... so there is some savings right there
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    I would suggest checking out Todd at BYOP.net. He can design your pool and plans for submission to your city or county. Or you can try Jon at titanundergroundgas@gmail.com, he can design your pool and manage all the subs for you.
    32K gallon 24'x41' IG, 8'x10' spa, mini pebble,
    Pentair equipment [Intellitouch I9, IC-60 SWG, 520 sq Clean + Clear Plus cartridge filter, 3 VS pumps(1 FX, 2 intelliflo)], Dolphin M5 cleaner.
    2 rain shears, 2 water shears, 2 blubbers, 4 laminars, water slide, rock waterfall.

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    bulldogz400's Avatar
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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    $35,000 with or without a spa? Spa adds a significant amount, of course depending on the size. Other factors like amount of decking, pool finish, equipment / tile used will also play a large factor. I sent my pool plans to 2 reputable builders in town, and both came back within $2,000 of eachother for the job. I am nearing the finishline of my DIY build and project that I am almost $10,000 under the lower of the two PB bids (and this doesn't even consider that I changed many things from the plans they quoted from - 438sq ft to 498sqft, 240 additional sq ft of decking, Quartz instead of standard white plaster, glass tile, etc etc.). I know that there are pros and cons to both methods, but subbing it out was the option I chose. I bet vudoo222 is saving a massive amount by overseeing his project with the complexities and intricate work he has going on. I work full time and yes, it is definitely possible to manage.
    IG gunite 32 x 18 on a bachelor budget! Click Here To See

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    No spa. It's as it appears in the picture.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Ozone and UV systems are a waste of money for outdoor private pools ... so there is some savings right there
    100% agree. Good luck and welcome to TFP!~
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    My personal experience of owning a pool with an ozonator and one without disagree with that, but this thread is not meant to be an argument over ozone vs. nozone. We're talking less than $1000 anyway.

    I'm more interested in if it's worth trying to manage subs myself. I'm estimating the costs to be around $28-30k for DIY so I'm thinking I'm looking at saving around $5k. I based my guesses on bulldogz estimates. My projects don't ever seem to go as smooth as I think so if it's that close I'm leaning toward building.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    I would love to hear you explain HOW the ozone helps ... or not, your money.

    Sorry I have no experience with being a general contractor. Good luck.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    During the couple times the ozonator broke, we were always fighting with cloudy water and algae. When it was working we weren't.

    There's plenty of people around that call me an idiot for having one, but for me there's a strong correlation between easier maintenance and a working ozonator so I'm going to go with it.

    I guess that means I believe in witchcraft.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Hey jblizzle, already plenty of other threads debating plus and minuses of ozonator. Bwarren, great thing about DIY is you can get it and all other pool equipment cheaper on the internet, no markup thru a pool builder. Free shipping and no tax. Most of the subs will give cash discount.
    Here in Arizona, most of the PBs use subs for their work anyways. My experience has been great so far. Just make sure you check each sub thru azroc.gov
    PM me if you would like my list of subs that I used.
    32K gallon 24'x41' IG, 8'x10' spa, mini pebble,
    Pentair equipment [Intellitouch I9, IC-60 SWG, 520 sq Clean + Clear Plus cartridge filter, 3 VS pumps(1 FX, 2 intelliflo)], Dolphin M5 cleaner.
    2 rain shears, 2 water shears, 2 blubbers, 4 laminars, water slide, rock waterfall.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by bwarren View Post
    I'm more interested in if it's worth trying to manage subs myself. I'm estimating the costs to be around $28-30k for DIY so I'm thinking I'm looking at saving around $5k. I based my guesses on bulldogz estimates. My projects don't ever seem to go as smooth as I think so if it's that close I'm leaning toward building.
    I was the GC for our build and enjoyed it. I like having control over the details, scheduling, etc. so it worked out great (and my PB charged a surchage to if they were the GC). The only negative was having to juggle things for work so I could be available at home for direction. I also think the risk of having your scheduled date being pushed is greater than if the PB was the GC.
    11,500 gallon mountain pond shaped vinyl line / Hayward 2spd pump / Hayward S244T sand filter (filled with zeobrite) / Hayward PL-P4 Automation panel / Hayward SWG (T-3 Cell) / Polaris 280 with booster / Hayward AquaConnect / Hayward CrystalLogic color changing LEDS

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by bwarren View Post
    I'm more interested in if it's worth trying to manage subs myself. I'm estimating the costs to be around $28-30k for DIY so I'm thinking I'm looking at saving around $5k. I based my guesses on bulldogz estimates. My projects don't ever seem to go as smooth as I think so if it's that close I'm leaning toward building.
    I think you'll be making the right decision. I'd definitely take Vudoo up on his list of subcontractors, that will give you a major head start. Have the plans drawn, make sure they're exactly what you're looking for, and start hitting the phone!

    A cash discount is definitely advantageous if you can work that out with each phase. I am very diligent to have a Lien Release signed when payment is made to act as a receipt. I also write any agreed upon warranty language, etc, into the Lien Release so we have a signed record of such.
    IG gunite 32 x 18 on a bachelor budget! Click Here To See

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    I'm looking to remodel also and the pool builder is pushing an ozone system so I've been trying to find more info. I've concluded if you follow the TFP methods and are testing/dosing daily you don't need one. I found what I thought was a great article that swayed me to not get one. I'm not supposed to posts links yet so just google "Swimming Pool Tip #48: Ozone Pool Sanitation Problems". I don't doubt your pool got worse when your system broke but that's the same as me saying my pool got worse when I neglected to test and put bleach in it for a few days.
    Thanks,
    Gil

    In-ground: 20,600 gallons; Sand Filter 1HP pump; Kreepy Krauler; Solar Breeze Solar Powered Robotic Skimmer; TFT-100 test kit

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    We are typically gone on weekends and several times a year for a week or more. We found that having the ozonator helped with keeping the chemicals closer to the green zone when we aren't around. I agree, if you are vigilant with your testing then you don't need it. If you do go with one I would avoid anything with a bulb, specifically Paramount. We had 2 rebuilds of the entire unit in 7 years. I think a lot of the vehemently negative info about ozone out there is due to people spreading misinformation, sort of like how companies are pushing salt free water softeners now. They aren't what people say they are. Ozone is purely supplemental and should never be sold as anything else. If you do a good job maintaining everything else, it's unnecessary. Anyway, that's enough of that.

    So would you say it's worth paying someone 1500 to manage the subs if shortening the build time is a concern? I can't do much else in the backyard until the pool is done which will push back my move date.

    I checked out BYOP and it looks like they are having you buy equipment at azpoolwarehouse.com.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Marshall is the owner of both azpoolwarehouse.com and BYOP, and they are located in Mesa. BYOP will design the pool and the plan to submit to the county or your city for permit. I paid about $700 for that part, however, you may want to check pricing for your pool as mine is a bigger pool and more water features. Also paid about $1400 to county for permits for the pool, gazebo, and gas. Marshall will then give you a list of equipment that he would recommend for your pool which was very helpful as a newbie. There were things that I would not have thought of. However, the list is just a recommendation, you can add or drop, upgrade or downgrade as you wish. I ended up getting all my equipment thru them because their prices are some of the lowest on the internet, plus they will price match. But you are not committed to them at all.

    The other route is going with someone like Jon, who did my gas, he will charge you $1500 as a consultant to design the pool and manage the subs. So he actually cost an extra $800 dollars more than BYOP to manage your pool.
    32K gallon 24'x41' IG, 8'x10' spa, mini pebble,
    Pentair equipment [Intellitouch I9, IC-60 SWG, 520 sq Clean + Clear Plus cartridge filter, 3 VS pumps(1 FX, 2 intelliflo)], Dolphin M5 cleaner.
    2 rain shears, 2 water shears, 2 blubbers, 4 laminars, water slide, rock waterfall.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    BYOP doesn't manage the subs though, right? They just hand you paperwork and you go file permits and find the subs on your own?

    BYOP has a plan for $995 that is just design, then they have a $1500 plan which includes all the paperwork and checklists and sub bidding, then there's a $2000 plan that includes landscape design, 3D drawings, and permit submittal.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    BYOP does not manage the subs. Just got off the phone with Todd, they just recently increased the pricing. The above pricing is correct. However, Todd said he will work with you on the price. Just tell him I sent you.
    32K gallon 24'x41' IG, 8'x10' spa, mini pebble,
    Pentair equipment [Intellitouch I9, IC-60 SWG, 520 sq Clean + Clear Plus cartridge filter, 3 VS pumps(1 FX, 2 intelliflo)], Dolphin M5 cleaner.
    2 rain shears, 2 water shears, 2 blubbers, 4 laminars, water slide, rock waterfall.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by vudoo222 View Post
    Just got off the phone with Todd, they just recently increased the pricing.
    I was very bummed about the $500 increase on all their packages. I am curious on warranty coverage of buying equipment yourself vs through the plumber. AZ ROC requires a 2 year warranty on all subs, but if you have an equipment failure on product that you yourself provided, I am pretty sure a plumber would be in the right to charge a service call to swap it out. Whereas if it is his equipment he provided, it would be a free swap and he can deal with the manufacturer.

    Just some things bouncing around my head.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    Just met with Todd. He said that they warranty all the equipment that they sell. Some parts have longer warranties than others but I think he said everything has at least a 2 year. If you have a problem you call them and they send someone out to fix it. He also said that if they don't have it (like the chiller I want), they will get it and do a price match so all your equipment comes from one place and you get the best price. The subs provide their own warranties on their work. So if the plumbing breaks, you call the plumber.

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    Re: New pool in Phoenix

    According to this:
    http://byop.monomythstudio.com/assurance/
    they are extending Pentair warranties to 5 years. If that is the case, and they cover labor as well, that is a great deal to use BYOP. Even with the price increase, that is a deal.

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