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Thread: Having a hard time locating information

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    Having a hard time locating information

    OK so our pool has been up for a week or so. I since found this site and will be adopting the TFPC methods. I as many new pool owners , it seems, have purchased the "package" from whatever pool store. My pump, filter, sanitizer (which I am not going to use) all seem to have a common problem. I don't find hardly ANY information on the manufacture websites for these items. I will use my pump and filter as the example:

    Manufacture Hayward
    Model SWIMPRO VOYAGER
    2HP 2 Speed Pump

    I was trying to find info for the flow ratings and head loss charts. There are not ANY SWIMPRO Voyager Pumps that match what I have on their site??? The motor does not even match the part number in the manual. Is this common? I have my doubts as to weather or not it is truly a 2 HP pump I would bet it is an inflated number. I will post a pic of the motor plate.
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Typically the pumps are just rebranded (Hayward manufacturer with different name on it), check the Hayward website and try to match with one of the pictures of the Hayward pump to your pump.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    The pump itself looks like the matrix pumps but none of those specs are even close.

    Here is the motor nameplate if anyone can decipher it.

    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    That is a 2.25 HP on the label, but the Service Factor is listed as SPL, which means it is less than 1 (probably 0.9). So ... it is a 2 SFHP pump

    You could also have a 2HP with 1.0 SF or 1.5HP with 1.33 SF and they would be identical ... except for the marketing games they are playing with the numbers.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    That is a 2.25 HP on the label, but the Service Factor is listed as SPL, which means it is less than 1 (probably 0.9). So ... it is a 2 SFHP pump

    You could also have a 2HP with 1.0 SF or 1.5HP with 1.33 SF and they would be identical ... except for the marketing games they are playing with the numbers.
    Actually that's what I initially thought as well 2.25 HP but it actually says 2-.25 SPL
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    OH ... I could not see the -

    So, that is likely actually a 1.5HP motor. A 2HP with a .75 SF.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    OH ... I could not see the -

    So, that is likely actually a 1.5HP motor. A 2HP with a .75 SF.
    OK I thought that might be the case. Trying to size up a timer and was hoping to use the Intermatic P1131 but I don't think it will work.
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    I would be more looking at the amp rating. Looks like you need something that will handle 15amps for the start up load.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    I would be more looking at the amp rating. Looks like you need something that will handle 15amps for the start up load.
    Actually, 15A is the "FLA" or "full load amperage," which is what the motor consumes while running normally. Startup or "inrush" currents can be substantially higher. I don't know if the Intermatics need to be sized in consideration of startup current or not, but it's something to check.
    15,000 gallon 16x30 IG w/vinyl liner built in 2006, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward 1HP Single Speed pump, Taylor K2006.

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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    A motor would never be sized to pull its FLA at normal running. It probably pulls 50 - 75% of FLA at normal running.

    But you are correct about inrush currents, a 15 amp breaker would trip every time you tried to start the motor.
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    I am on a 20a circuit. The question was the p1131 timer. The unit specs a 20 amp circuit but 15 amp 1 HP motor.
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    Pflugerpool's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Quote Originally Posted by Griswald View Post
    A motor would never be sized to pull its FLA at normal running.
    "Running normally" is defined as "at the rated load."
    15,000 gallon 16x30 IG w/vinyl liner built in 2006, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward 1HP Single Speed pump, Taylor K2006.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    I am nearly positive that the pump will not be pulling anywhere near 15amps while running (ignoring startup).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    The highest current draw on a motor is when it is starting. Once it is running, the current drops down considerably.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Pflugerpool is correct, in that an electric motor will draw a little more than half of the FLA when running at or below it's rated load.

    Inrush/starting current can be as much as 10x the FLA, for a very short time, as the motor spins up. this is why industrial motor fuses and breakers are "slow blow". This gives a small period of time where very high starting currents aren't going to do a lot of false trips on starting.

    Household breakers can actually handle 5x the rated current for up to 10 seconds, but will trip instantaneously on a direct short.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Right... that's my understanding as well. 15a is the max draw at startup. At any rate I will probably end up doing a Hardwired timer.
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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    Pflugerpool's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Quote Originally Posted by mrramsey View Post
    Right... that's my understanding as well. 15a is the max draw at startup.
    No, I'm afraid you're misinterpreting that. 15A is the maximum current draw running. Startup inrush could be 150A, albeit for a very short time.
    15,000 gallon 16x30 IG w/vinyl liner built in 2006, Hayward cartridge filter, Hayward 1HP Single Speed pump, Taylor K2006.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Large current in rush occurs on high start up torque applications like a compressor. However, pool pumps have a very low start up torque so the load is near zero. The motor only needs to overcome the friction of the bearings but as the impeller spins up, load/torque increases with speed. So if you were to scope the current on a typical pool pump motor as it starts, the current increases on a cubic curve until the RPM is at full speed (~3450 RPM). But of course this happens very quickly. Remember that the maximum torque curve of an induction motor is not the same as the torque curve for centrifugal pump:

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pu...ue-d_1114.html

    Another good reference:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=3Rj...0curve&f=false

    There is however, still a short 1 cycle burst for the EMF build up but overall it is much shorter than a compressor.

    Also, most pool pumps have an operating point that is well below FLA. The current draw on a pump increases from left to right on the pump head curve and peaks at just before pump run out. So that is why you should never use FLA as an indication of operational pump power draw.
    Last edited by mas985; 07-24-2014 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Mark
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    Re: Having a hard time locating information

    Thank you for the corrections, Mark!
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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