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Thread: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    If I am posting too many pictures or unnecessary info please let me know!

    I've got my test kit but my pool service is paid for through the last two Wednesdays of the month. Should I let them "do their work" or fight them for a refund of two weeks? To be fair they did eliminate the black algae that was there when we purchased the house and the pool is pretty clear now...

    When I do take over should I switch to Salt Water and if so, do I need to buy more equipment?

    This is how my equipment is set up:


    My Hayward filter says "Approved for Fresh or Salt water":


    My pump:


    My PSI when running:


    My timer, although I don't think it has been in use since my pump was replaced...?
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Why don't you test your water and post a full set of results so we can see how well they are caring for the water.

    If you want to go the route of a SWCG, obviously you will need to buy one but I will let others comment on purchase/installation.

    Are you running the pump 24/7? Turning it on off manually? Your timer is missing the on/off trippers that clamp around the edge of the yellow dial to make it work. Additionally, there is usually a clear plastic shield below the yellow timer wheel. Yours is missing and makes that a little dangerous. Those brass screws that the wires are connected to are hot. Be careful in there.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    I'd say start testing so you see what you're up against. Expect to see really high CYA and CH. The CYA from that puck feeder and the CH just because of where we live.

    For equipment, you'll need a pole, a brush, a leaf skimmer, a vacuum head and a vacuum hose and some way to connect the hose to the skimmer port. And a couple trippers for the timer.

    I wandered the plumbing aisle at Lowes and came up with a sink tailpiece and a slip-threaded PVC coupling that sits nicely in my skimmer port. Depending on how your pool is plumbed, a vacuum plate may not work; mine would rather draw water through a relatively short fat pipe to the main drain than through a long narrow vacuum hose. Take a gander at the Visual Encyclopedia for pictures of what I'm talking about.

    Here's my vacuum hose adaptor.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Why don't you test your water and post a full set of results so we can see how well they are caring for the water.

    If you want to go the route of a SWCG, obviously you will need to buy one but I will let others comment on purchase/installation.

    Are you running the pump 24/7? Turning it on off manually? Your timer is missing the on/off trippers that clamp around the edge of the yellow dial to make it work. Additionally, there is usually a clear plastic shield below the yellow timer wheel. Yours is missing and makes that a little dangerous. Those brass screws that the wires are connected to are hot. Be careful in there.
    Thanks for the reply. I've done four tests of just the Cl and pH since receiving my TF-100. My first three tests were done last Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. The Chlorine reading was off the charts: it matched the 6.8 orange from the pH side. The pH was at 8.2/7.8:


    We had a party on Saturday and probably 8 different people were in the pool. I filled a good two inches of water last night to make up for the party and regular evaporation. I ran my Chlorine and pH tests again last night and came back with Cl well under the orange from the other days. If I had to guess it would be more of a 12 if there was one on the scale. The pH was at 7.8.

    The EcoStar timer was set when it was installed. My "understanding" is that it runs constantly; however, it is usually barely on and the sound difference between it in low effiency mode and fully running is huge. Then every few hours it kicks up to a percentage of 85 to 100, but I don't know the schedule. I also believe that the timer is missing the trippers because the pump has its own timer built in. Does that make sense? I use the Quick Clean button on the EcoStar when I brush the walls, clean leaves out, and run the Dolphin pool cleaner.
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    With the chlorine above five you are going to have to use the FAS-DPD (powder & drops) chlorine test to get an accurate reading.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    I'd say start testing so you see what you're up against. Expect to see really high CYA and CH. The CYA from that puck feeder and the CH just because of where we live.

    For equipment, you'll need a pole, a brush, a leaf skimmer, a vacuum head and a vacuum hose and some way to connect the hose to the skimmer port. And a couple trippers for the timer.

    I wandered the plumbing aisle at Lowes and came up with a sink tailpiece and a slip-threaded PVC coupling that sits nicely in my skimmer port. Depending on how your pool is plumbed, a vacuum plate may not work; mine would rather draw water through a relatively short fat pipe to the main drain than through a long narrow vacuum hose. Take a gander at the Visual Encyclopedia for pictures of what I'm talking about.

    Here's my vacuum hose adaptor.
    Thanks! I will run a full test tonight to see where they are at. As for equipment I now have: 2 poles for a leaf skimmer and a Wall Whale and the Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner. With me having the Dolphin I assume I don't need the vacuum and something like the sink tailpiece that you made?

    As I stated above to tim5055 my EcoStar has a timer and I believe that is why there are no trippers on the one pictured above. I should have included this picture on my first post:


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    With the chlorine above five you are going to have to use the FAS-DPD (powder & drops) chlorine test to get an accurate reading.
    Do you know if that is in the TF-100 kit or something extra that I will need? Also I need to correct myself: my guess would be a 6 or 7 on the Cl side; when I said if I guessed it would be 12 I was looking at the numbers under Br.
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy1271 View Post
    Do you know if that is in the TF-100 kit or something extra that I will need? Also I need to correct myself: my guess would be a 6 or 7 on the Cl side; when I said if I guessed it would be 12 I was looking at the numbers under Br.
    Yes, it is in the kit.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    You entered into an agreement with them and they cured your problem with the algae. Unless they did something wrong I wouldn't fight them or demand a refund. You can always "ask" if they will discontinue service and give you a refund as you've chosen to go a different way with pool care procedures and chemicals.

    If you go with a SWG get one bigger than you need. I don't have one but from what I've read it makes a big difference in it's efficiency and longevity. What you might spend initially buying it paying more for a bigger one is better than having to buy another too soon. The recommendation is to go 1.5 to 3 times it's rated capacity.

    And I was already going to say something about the insulating shield on the timer. If you've ever reached in there and hit those wires you know why. Being in a wet environment is just that much worse. Hopefully you do have a GFI in the circuit to protect you. The covers are available. The part number is in the diagram. Since you have a timer on the pump you likely don't go into the timer box but it's still a good idea in case you use if to turn off your pump for service (I'd still flip the breaker in the fuse box).

    The TF-100 - > http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html
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    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Sorry, that diagram didn't have the part number. Intermatic Timer Motor Cover Plastic Insulator Part #: 124T1952 for T103 and T104 Series & 124T1948 for T101 and T102 Series.
    http://www.backyardpoolsuperstore.co...XqcBoCHf3w_wcB
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    Sorry, that diagram didn't have the part number. Intermatic Timer Motor Cover Plastic Insulator Part #: 124T1952 for T103 and T104 Series & 124T1948 for T101 and T102 Series.
    http://www.backyardpoolsuperstore.co...XqcBoCHf3w_wcB
    Ordered, thanks!
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    You entered into an agreement with them and the cured your porblem with the algae. Unless they did something wrong I wouldn't fight them or demand a refund. You can always "ask" if they will discontinue service and give you a refund as you've chosen to go a different way with pool care procedures and chemicals.

    If you go with a SWG get one bigger than you need. I don't have one but from what I've read it makes a big difference in it's efficiency and longevity. What you might spend initially buying it paying more for a bigger one is better than having to buy another too soon. I think the recommendation is to go 1.5 times it's rated capacity. in your case something rated around 26K gal.

    And I was already going to say something about the insulating shield on the timer. If you've ever reached in there and hit those wires you know why. Being in a wet environment is just that much worse. Hopefully you do have a GFI in the circuit to protect you. The covers are available. The part number is in the diagram. Since you have a timer on the pump you likely don't go into the timer box but it's still a good idea in case you use if to turn off your pump for service (I'd still flip the breaker in the fuse box).

    The TF-100 - > http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html
    I 100% agree with your comment on my current pool service. They have been awesome and I by no means have any ill will towards them. I'll let them earn their last few dollars from me!

    I'll have to dig into the whole SWG thing because I know nothing about any of this... why I became a member here

    I've yet to reach in there, but I did order the cover! I have no idea if it is connected to a GFI circuit. I'll have to try and trace which breaker it goes to.
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    I have my pool listed as Plaster; however, I am assuming... How do I verify that? Will vinyl chip and crack?
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Nope, vinyl is like the material they make the cheap inflatable pool floats out of. It will rip but it doesn't chip and it would really need to be old to crack. If it cracked you'd know it was vinyl as it would start to peel.

    For more SWG advise you might want to do a little reading up on them and then hit up the guys in the "Salt Water Chlorine Generators (SWG)" section. I thought by now more folks would have chimed in but it might be because you have this in the TFPC Method section.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    Nope, vinyl is like the material they make the cheap inflatable pool floats out of. It will rip but it doesn't chip and it would really need to be old to crack. If it cracked you'd know it was vinyl as it would start to peel.
    Thank you, much appreciated and I'm glad to know I guessed correctly
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Any suggestions on a SWG that would work for my pool? Is this something an average user can install? I've been a machinist, done construction, and now do IT work so I'm pretty capable with my hands and my brain works ok
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    For more SWG advise you might want to do a little reading up on them and then hit up the guys in the
    "Salt Water Chlorine Generators (SWG)" section - - > http://www.troublefreepool.com/forum...tors-%28SWG%29
    I thought by now more folks would have chimed in but it might be because you have this in the TFPC Method section.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    For more SWG advise you might want to do a little reading up on them and then hit up the guys in the
    "Salt Water Chlorine Generators (SWG)" section - - > http://www.troublefreepool.com/forum...tors-%28SWG%29
    I thought by now more folks would have chimed in but it might be because you have this in the TFPC Method section.
    I will head over there and post some info and see what I get!
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    It's an investment and it's something you want to try and get the right one, the right size and know how it's going to perform before you lay out the $$$. I liked the idea of one until I found out they don't work well as the ambient temps start to fall but I'm in WI and I have to worry about temp as water is a solid for half the year !!

    When you post a question you should also ask about it working in your climate. I wasn't aware it got down to 40s & 50s where you are if my info is correct. I think at some point if the water temp gets into the 60s (guessing) it starts to affect the SWGs ability to produce chlorine. Don't know if you keep it open 365, if you have and use a heater, ... things to consider.

    Monthly highs and lows : http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...ly/graph/91340
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    It's an investment and it's something you want to try and get the right one, the right size and know how it's going to perform before you lay out the $$$. I liked the idea of one until I found out they don't work well as the ambient temps start to fall but I'm in WI and I have to worry about temp as water is a solid for half the year !!

    When you post a question you should also ask about it working in your climate. I wasn't aware it got down to 40s & 50s where you are if my info is correct. I think at some point if the water temp gets into the 60s (guessing) it starts to affect the SWGs ability to produce chlorine. Don't know if you keep it open 365, if you have and use a heater, ... things to consider.

    Monthly highs and lows : http://www.weather.com/weather/wxcli...ly/graph/91340
    Yes I live where it will be 112+ in the summer and can get into the 30s in the winter; makes it cold riding in the Jeep with the top off and no doors... I did grow up in PA and understand water turning to a solid for a third of the year.

    Had the house for just over a year and a half and I did not close it either winters and I don't have a heater. Seeing more posts about SWG, thanks Richard, I am starting to think that if I were to go that route it can wait.
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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    fatboy1271's Avatar
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    Re: When to start take-over and do I switch to SWG?

    Just ran my first tests:

    Cl = 7?
    Br = 12?
    pH = 7.5
    FC 26 X 0.5 = 13
    TC 2 x 0.5 =1
    CH 22 x 25 = 550
    TA 13 x 10 = 130
    CYA = 89
    Patrick
    Gallons = 17K / IG / Fiberglass / Filter = Hayward DE-6000 / Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed / Pentair IC40 / 1976, I believe / Shape = "Kidney Bean"
    TF-100 / SpeedStir Magnetic Stirrer / Dolphin Nautilus Pool Cleaner / Wall Whale

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