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Thread: New pool and have a few questions

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    New pool and have a few questions

    Hi all been lurking here for a few weeks now. We just had our new ABG pool installed last week. We have a 24' Aqua Leader Sentinelle 54" pool. It came equipped with a Hayward 2.25 HP 2 speed pump and a Hayward Voyager filter. The sanitizing system is a Zodiac nature 2 fusion. We have had the pool filled and running 24/7 and used it for the first time yesterday. Still a bit cold but we all enjoyed it. The folks at the pool store we bought from said to just run it 24/7 on low speed. I am curious though if it needs to run that much? How does one make that determination?

    Open to any suggestions or advice.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    You will find that what is taught here is different than what is taught by the pool stores. Our goal is to educate you to be able to maintain a beautiful pool without spending unnecessary money. An example of that is the nature 2 you have been sold It has limited sanitizing capabilities as it uses metals as its method of sanitizing. The metals are unnecessary and can cause unwanted effects. Use the search in the upper right hand corner and read a little about the Nature 2. The only benefit to the Nature 2 is to the pool store owners bank account as you have to keep buying new cartridges and chemicals they say you need to fix problems you will have in the future.

    To follow the pool care methods taught here you need to arm yourself with the knowledge and tools necessary to care for your pool.

    The knowledge is condensed in the Pool School link at the top of every page. It is a great community here, but we do ask that you read and try to understand the information being taught. While we want you to read and understand all of th Pool School, one article deals directly with your question, "Determine Pump Run Time".
    As you read questions are always welcome and folks will try to direct you and teach you the methods.

    The tools are not limited to the brushes, vacuum hoses and other stuff you use around the pool, but include the most important item - one of the recommended test kits. You can buy a kit at a pool store, but again the pool store kits generally won't cut it. To effectively practice the TFPC methods, the FAS/DPD chlorine test is essential. All these kits contain that test while very few other kits do. Think of it this way, do you see a doctor blindly prescribing drugs without seeing the patient or having tests run? The pool store will tell you that you don't need a comprehensive test kit, just to bring them water and they will tell you what you need. Never take advice from someone who has a financial interest in the advice given.

    When it is all said and done you will have to decide to follow TFPC methods or the pool store methods. Trying to mix/match pool store advice and TFPC advice won't work!

    So, welcome to TFP!!
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    people here will say dont use the nature 2, but i support it!

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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    people here will say dont use the nature 2, but i support it!
    I have not installed the mineral cartridge as of yet since we are halfway through the season already. I am just using it to chlorinate right now.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mrramsey View Post
    I have not installed the mineral cartridge as of yet since we are halfway through the season already. I am just using it to chlorinate right now.
    I think if you read about people who have had problems with the Nature 2 minerals they outweigh people who love it. I would say don't install it. My new spa came with it and i took it out.

    Have you stared working out the pump run time?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    I think if you read about people who have had problems with the Nature 2 minerals they outweigh people who love it. I would say don't install it. My new spa came with it and i took it out.

    Have you stared working out the pump run time?
    I am still working that out. I haven't found any reliable info on the GPM output of this pump. If my assumptions are correct this is the same or very similar to the Power-Flo Matrix pump that indicates 86 gpm @ 20' of head. Assuming on high speed so my next assumption is that it is somewhere in the range of 30-40 gpm on low.

    The actual pump model I have is SW159412STL the motor is SP1520Z24ESC HP 2 - .25 (if I understand that it is 2 hp on high and 1/4 HP on low) 15a high and 4.4a low.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    The folks at the pool store we bought from said to just run it 24/7 on low speed.
    The folks at the pool store aren't paying your electrical bill, either. Start dialing it back until you reach the point where it just doesn't sparkle the way it used to, and then go back up. You may be surprised to find that 3 or 4 hours a day is sufficient.

    Use the search box for Nature2 and read what others say about it. Go check the post history of the proponents. Then read the TFP philosophy: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...at-is-tfpc-bbb

    Make your decision and do what you feel is best. You have to live with the thing.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    Yeah I know they aren't paying for it and frankly my KWH rate is only .07942 which is cheap. If I run the pump 24 hours it is costing about $1 per day. That being said it is not so much about the cost as it is wasting the energy unnecessarily. If I use the half speed rate of 86 gpm on high to give me 43gpm on low, then use a 1.5 turnover per day I would need to run about 8.5 hours on the low speed. This in turn would be a whopping 36 cents per day.

    Now with all of that said, and I know there are not any exact answers for this but I am just making sure I am thinking logically. Having the nature2 thingy with chlorine only (for the short term that is) I am running it on the lowest setting of 1 running round the clock at the moment. If I run it for 8 hours logically i am thinking I would need to up the rate of flow through the chlorine tablets correct?

    Also related to the run time is it better to run all at once or a few times through out the day?

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    There's more than just the electrical cost -- don't forget the wear and tear on the pump. Bearings have a finite lifespan.

    You logic is correct - one third the run time means triple the feed rate, However... you're not just adding chlorine with the feeder. You're adding cyanuric acid as well. And as the level of it builds up, so to does the FC minimum. Raising the feed rate to increase FC also raises CYA, which means you have to raise FC again, which also increases the CYA level, which means... you're stuck in a vicious spiral.

    FC/CYA chart. Yes, it disagrees with conventional pool store wisdom, but it works.
    Explanation of different forms of Chlorine
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: New pool and have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    There's more than just the electrical cost -- don't forget the wear and tear on the pump. Bearings have a finite lifespan.

    You logic is correct - one third the run time means triple the feed rate, However... you're not just adding chlorine with the feeder. You're adding cyanuric acid as well. And as the level of it builds up, so to does the FC minimum. Raising the feed rate to increase FC also raises CYA, which means you have to raise FC again, which also increases the CYA level, which means... you're stuck in a vicious spiral.

    FC/CYA chart. Yes, it disagrees with conventional pool store wisdom, but it works.
    Explanation of different forms of Chlorine
    Thanks for the information Richard. This was helpful information and gave me some confirmation on what I was thinking. I am going to wire up a timer to my system this weekend.
    24'x54" AGP 13,500g AquaLeader Sentinelle | Hayward Voyager CC150 sqft cartridge filter | Hayward 2hp 2spd pump | Hayward Aquaray Cleaner

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