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Thread: Stenner vs SWG

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    Stenner vs SWG

    Hey everyone!

    I was thinking of a SWG conversion with intelliph (pool has a tendency of driving pH up all the time) but came across posts about a stenner setup. What are the advantages/ disadvantages between both the setups?

    I am planning an equipment upgrade so right now I'm in the research phase to see which way to go.
    Thanks!
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Stenner is cheaper up front, but you still have to buy and haul as much bleach as you would if manually adding bleach. Likely having to fill the tank every week or so.

    SWG costs more up front, will raise the pH more, but only have to add salt at start and maybe a bag or 2 once a season.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    mikespoolfl's Avatar
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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    See in your sig you have VS pump. Pump speed and run times are more flexible with stenner. My injection time is about 35 minutes, and can be done on the lowest speed. I’m using about 32 ozs. a day in the summer and have a 15 gallon tank. If I have a heavy bather load I just up the run time 10 min.
    Screen enclosed 17K gal 16x30 IG with Diamond Brite finish, elevated 4 jet spa with spill over, Twin dolphin fountain, Hayward Ecostar pump[ Pentair intelliflo VS, Filter Sta rite Posi-Flo PTM 100, Aqua Cal heat pump, Tiger Shark QC robotic cleaner.
    Stenner peristaltic pump model 45MPHP10, 15 gal storage tank. TF 100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    I run the pump at 900 rpm with a 15 minute "boost" at 1500 rpm on start to get the water "moving". This is just enough for the skimmer. During season the pump runs for 14 hours. The eyeballs are re-sized to speed up water to get good circulation. No problems for the past 2 years with this configuration.

    I also need an acid injector to automate the pool since the pH does tend to go up probably due to the 2 spillways at the spa. With a stenner, can I also have intelliph inject MA? From the forum I know intelliph works in conjunction with a SWG but with a stenner, wont it make nasty stuff when MA mixes with bleach?
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    An Stenner acid pump is a good way to inject acid, but you absolutely need separate tanks & pumps for acid and chlorine. Mixing acid and chlorine produces chlorine gas, which can kill or cause serious injury.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    So what I am understanding is that if we have two stenners and inject both bleach and MA into the return pipe...lets say injection points are about 18 inches apart, then there is no concern about MA mixing with bleach to create free chlorine gas. If that is correct then how about the stenner dual head pump rather than two separate stenners?
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    As long as the feed rates are fairly low, the pump is running, and you have several inches of separation between the injection points you will be fine.

    Your feed rates aren't going to match up, so the dual head version doesn't make sense.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Thank you!

    This has enabled me to compare both the setups and has added a lot of value to my research! Thanks again!
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    I pondered the same scenario; in the end Stenner won based upon cost. SWG is around $1500 initial cost, + replacement cells every few years, There is also some maint. involved (cleaning cells, possible sensor replacement...) depending on a variety of possible issues/environments.

    Stenner Pump, an Intermatic 3 circuit timer to control pump/Stenner and 15 gallon tank around $450; just need to add 15 gallons of Liquid chlorine every month or so ($1.28/gallon for 12.5%) and I'm good to go. I'm also not totally sold on corrosion issues with salt and various pool equipment and don't wanna add anodes to my system as I just don't like any metal contacting/leaching into pool water if not completely necessary. My pool has always liked liquid chlorine, even back when I was using 5.25% bleach; it just seems to prefer it. I may need to dump in a very small amount of liquid or dry acid to keep Ph in a nice range but very rarely.

    Stenner+timer setup is working nicely so far (only went to it this season, previously hand-chlorination with liquid). No issues. I think most pools have an individual 'personality' based on a variety of factors; liquid chlorine seems to be what mine prefers so why change?
    20K gal, vinyl, 1 HP Challenger 2-spd pump, 300 lb sand filter, Raypak 266K BTU, 45M stenner pumpin' bleach

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by budgetplan1 View Post
    I pondered the same scenario; in the end Stenner won based upon cost. SWG is around $1500 initial cost, + replacement cells every few years, There is also some maint. involved (cleaning cells, possible sensor replacement...) depending on a variety of possible issues/environments.

    Stenner Pump, an Intermatic 3 circuit timer to control pump/Stenner and 15 gallon tank around $450; just need to add 15 gallons of Liquid chlorine every month or so ($1.28/gallon for 12.5%) and I'm good to go. I'm also not totally sold on corrosion issues with salt and various pool equipment and don't wanna add anodes to my system as I just don't like any metal contacting/leaching into pool water if not completely necessary. My pool has always liked liquid chlorine, even back when I was using 5.25% bleach; it just seems to prefer it. I may need to dump in a very small amount of liquid or dry acid to keep Ph in a nice range but very rarely.

    Stenner+timer setup is working nicely so far (only went to it this season, previously hand-chlorination with liquid). No issues. I think most pools have an individual 'personality' based on a variety of factors; liquid chlorine seems to be what mine prefers so why change?
    Not that I disagree with your points, but a SWG should not cost near $1500. Here is a full Pentair IC40 salt system for $745 shipped:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pentair-Inte...item3a79abb20b
    IG gunite 32 x 18 on a bachelor budget! Click Here To See

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    I believe a lot has to do with how valuable your time is. For me a SWCG is a much better option since I don't have to haul chlorine (gas and time) nor spend time filling a dispenser occasionally. In two years I have never purchased chlorine. I just add MA once a week to lower my PH. I test twice a week with the quick test and weekly I do the full suite of tests with my TF100. I have cleaned my cell once to learn how. I inspect it every six months. It still looks new inside. I think it has to do with keeping my water well balanced year round. If I were retired with a lot of time on my hands I would chose a stenner pump just to give me something to do. Just my humble opinion!
    Gunite/Plaster pool at 13k gallons. All Jandy with CL340 series cartridge filter, 1.5 HP Jandy Stealth pump. Jandy 1400 SWCG and PDA4 controller. Dual waterfalls. Polaris 280. Pool installed August 2012. Southern Louisiana. And lets not forget my trusty TF100 test kit!

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by Suley View Post
    Hey everyone!

    I was thinking of a SWG conversion with intelliph (pool has a tendency of driving pH up all the time) but came across posts about a stenner setup. What are the advantages/ disadvantages between both the setups?

    I am planning an equipment upgrade so right now I'm in the research phase to see which way to go.
    Thanks!

    I went the steener route due to:

    1) cost, but i got the stenner for 95 bucks new (just happened to catch an ebay deal)...so it kinda swayed me to try it. then I put about 100 bucks in tank, timer,etc.
    2) run time, i'm down to running my pump 5 hours. I can dose whatever i need with the steener in that time span easily (right now in the middle
    of florida summer i'm maybe 30-60m a day).
    3) the guys who remarcited my pool we're pretty positive about swg but did say the lifespan is only a few years in florida.
    I like that the stenner is pretty user serviceable

    As far as trouble, the wife or myself get 2 gallons of bleach every week or 2 just mostly to keep the tank topped of. <- edit..just normal grocery store trip.

    I don't think you can too go wrong with either. The stenner except for daily php checks and weekly other chem checks has pretty
    much put the chlorine aspect of my pool on cruise control...best thing ever! Company comes over and I get nothing but compliments on the water quality.
    They're used to subdivison pools with high chlorine and ph all out of wack.

    If I only knew 10 years ago what I've learned on this site I would have gotten so much more enjoyment out of my pool....but we're lovin it now!
    1987 16k gallons IG, Marbletire Marquis, ,Pentair superflo 1hp, Hayward s244t, Chlorine (working on stenner setup)

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Thanks for the explanation. Part of the issue I'm facing is being out of town for a week or more. The pool consumes about 50oz of 12.5% bleach everyday during peak summers with zero bather load. I have lots of direct sunlight and trees all around. The pool also has a tendency to raise the ph and requires MA every other day. Iam swinging SWG with intelliph at this time even though the initial cost would be uncomfortable. But honestly, I'm a bit shaken by the latest episode of zero cya which happened due to an emergency trip. (See my post titled "zero cya?")

    in this scenario, do you still recommend stenner? Maybe with a bigger tank? But won't heat and evaporation effect the bleach, MA and the stenner(s) in turn?
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by Suley View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. Part of the issue I'm facing is being out of town for a week or more. The pool consumes about 50oz of 12.5% bleach everyday during peak summers with zero bather load. I have lots of direct sunlight and trees all around. The pool also has a tendency to raise the ph and requires MA every other day. Iam swinging SWG with intelliph at this time even though the initial cost would be uncomfortable. But honestly, I'm a bit shaken by the latest episode of zero cya which happened due to an emergency trip. (See my post titled "zero cya?")

    in this scenario, do you still recommend stenner? Maybe with a bigger tank? But won't heat and evaporation effect the bleach, MA and the stenner(s) in turn?
    \

    I'm not really technical enough to know the ph, cya, or about the intelliph recommendations...i've been following that cya thread out of interest though I don't have a cya problem myself...so i'll leave that to the experts here.

    I'm using about a 1-2 quarts a day here in florida...somewhere in there i guesstimate based on stenner output and runtime, still dialing things in while i get my cya up a bit, but it's just regular 9% bleach, i've not noticed any problems with the tank in the sun though i did get a blue drum/tank (there's a thread on here that discusses the dilution effect of sun/time/heat...though seems it takes a bit of time for a noticeable drop irrc, drop seems minimal for a week or a couple of weeks). I probably have to add acid 1 / week, maybe 32oz.
    1987 16k gallons IG, Marbletire Marquis, ,Pentair superflo 1hp, Hayward s244t, Chlorine (working on stenner setup)

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Just to give my experience...

    My Stenner has been running for exactly one month. The day I installed it we left town for 10 days. My pH tends to rise due to my main return being a waterfall and under normal conditions I have to add MA every second or third day.

    I did the math for run time/% injection and let her rip. Due to my 80 CYA I keep the pool between 6 - 9 FC When we left the FC was 9 and when we returned from the trip the FC was 5.5, so I was close in my math.

    I have my Stenner wired directly to the pump time so when the pump is on the Stenner is injecting. I have played around with run times and % injection (trying to keep it close to 100%) and it seems I have hit the sweet spot. It now keeps the pool 8.5 - 9.5. I'm happy with this as I'd rather it be just a hair high than drift too low. I now have my pump run time down to about 4 hours a day and that is sufficient to keep the pool clean. If I override the timer (we like the waterfall on when we are in the pool) sometimes I will switch the Stenner off manually but usually I let it run. I figure the extra chlorine is being used with the extra bather load.

    As to pH, when we go out of town I use MA to push it down before we go. The longer the trip the lower I push it so that there are few days out of range.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Thanks for all that... You have convinced me to take another look at the stenner setup and I'm going back to the drawing board to do a cost analysis... Will keep you posted.
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Was checking prices for the stenner, $462 for high pressure adjustable rate with a 15 gallon uv tank... This is almost the same cost to buy an IC 40. Do you know how I can get the stenner cheaper like others have posted that they got it much cheaper?

    Thanks!
    Suley, West Hills, CA
    IG 23000 Gallons with IG Spa Gunite plaster, Pentair Intelliflo VS 3HP, Pentair Clean & Clear Plus 420 Cartridge filter, Teledyne Laars One series 400,000 BTU Nat Gas Heater, Hayward Max Flo 1HP Single Speed Spa pump, Noisy Spa blower, Dolphin Deluxe 4 robotic vacuum.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by Suley View Post
    Was checking prices for the stenner, $462 for high pressure adjustable rate with a 15 gallon uv tank... This is almost the same cost to buy an IC 40. Do you know how I can get the stenner cheaper like others have posted that they got it much cheaper?

    Thanks!
    Most buy the tank separate. That brings teh cost down. I think my Stemmer was $278. Tank was $35
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Got my pump new on sale $198 shipped, 15 gal tank $11, timer $20 Total $229. Happy wife priceless (no more white spots on pants).
    Screen enclosed 17K gal 16x30 IG with Diamond Brite finish, elevated 4 jet spa with spill over, Twin dolphin fountain, Hayward Ecostar pump[ Pentair intelliflo VS, Filter Sta rite Posi-Flo PTM 100, Aqua Cal heat pump, Tiger Shark QC robotic cleaner.
    Stenner peristaltic pump model 45MPHP10, 15 gal storage tank. TF 100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Stenner vs SWG

    Quote Originally Posted by budgetplan1 View Post
    I pondered the same scenario; in the end Stenner won based upon cost. SWG is around $1500 initial cost, + replacement cells every few years, There is also some maint. involved (cleaning cells, possible sensor replacement...) depending on a variety of possible issues/environments.

    Stenner Pump, an Intermatic 3 circuit timer to control pump/Stenner and 15 gallon tank around $450; just need to add 15 gallons of Liquid chlorine every month or so ($1.28/gallon for 12.5%) and I'm good to go. I'm also not totally sold on corrosion issues with salt and various pool equipment and don't wanna add anodes to my system as I just don't like any metal contacting/leaching into pool water if not completely necessary. My pool has always liked liquid chlorine, even back when I was using 5.25% bleach; it just seems to prefer it. I may need to dump in a very small amount of liquid or dry acid to keep Ph in a nice range but very rarely.

    Stenner+timer setup is working nicely so far (only went to it this season, previously hand-chlorination with liquid). No issues. I think most pools have an individual 'personality' based on a variety of factors; liquid chlorine seems to be what mine prefers so why change?
    Where are you getting 12.5% liquid chlorine for 1.28 a gallon? I found some at a pool store near me and it was 5 dollars a gallon. Lowes has 10% at 3.68 but I haven't seen anything close to that price. Even the cheapest bleach I could fin was around 3 dollars for 121 oz of 8.25%.
    ~15K gal, IG gunite with new Wetedge Satin Matrix Pebble Finish installed mid 04/14, 1 HP Pentair Challanger pump, Sta-rite System 3 300 sqft cartridge filter, G3 cleaner

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