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Thread: opinions about hybrid approach

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    markuszoom5's Avatar
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    opinions about hybrid approach

    So I have owned my pool since march2014, but it has been open since may. So far, everything is great due to BBB. I have to confess though, that when I first started I did not know what I was doing so I ended up with a giant 40 lbs tub of 3in trichlor tablets from lowes for $89 (I know cheap). I never added any CYA since I started. In order to use them up, I have been doing a hybrid approach. I would add 2 tablets every time the other 2 dissolved. In addition to that I would add 12% liquid chlorine (get it cheap from pool store) instead of bleach. I add baking soda if my alkalinity is low and of course borax to raise pH. I have not had to do it too much though. My water is crystal clear. So far, since I dilute my water by having 2-3 people doing water bomb dives into the pool regularly and having to fill from the hose, my CYA has been somewhat stable (in the 50-60s). My pool stays open unil sept. and then I close it around labor day. We get rain and snow, which will add more rainwater anyways while the pool is closed. Can I continue my hybrid approach as long as I can keep CYA in check? Once I use up the tabs, I plan to not buy anymore. But if this works for me, can I continue with tabs, as it allows me to add the liquid stuff less often.
    Please disregard the debris on bottom, i have to vacuum this weekend.
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    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    PAGirl's Avatar
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    If you are still using the strips to check the CYA. it might not be as low as you think it is.
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    As long as you realize that the pucks are acidic and drop your pH and TA and drive the CYA up and you take care of it and keep an eye on it, you can use them up. It's your pool.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    If you are still using the strips to check the CYA. it might not be as low as you think it is.
    I take it to the pool store once a week, and they do the computer test. I feel like that is more accurate that even the test recommended here, but I could be wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    As long as you realize that the pucks are acidic and drop your pH and TA and drive the CYA up and you take care of it and keep an eye on it, you can use them up. It's your pool.
    Oh man, I feel like a chemist now after reading pool school over the past few months. I get all the relationships, just wanted to make sure there is not something else I am missing.
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    I've read the pool store testing can be better than the strip, but not nearly as consistent as using the test kit by the owner of the pool. I've seen posts where the person took the sample of water to three different stores, and got three completely different result. Or went back to the same store and the CYA reading varied greatly.
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    The best of the electronic testers are just a little worse than the kits we recommend, the average electronic tester is way worse.
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    opinions about hybrid approach

    In all honestly the kits here are more accurate than the pool store. The CYA test is usually one they are really bad at and you seem to know how important that level is. There are loads of threads here about pool store testing and the accuracy of it.
    Do yourself and your pool a favor and get a good quality test kit. I use the TF-100 like many other members. It's the best value. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    I also use the hybrid approach as you mentioned. I have my pool drained and cleaned every spring after the winter. I add a couple of pounds of CYA initially and then use 3" trichlor tabs in my auto chlorinator until I hit 40ppm CYA with the addition of daily liquid chlorine. I have an auto pool cover so early on I don't lose a lot of chlorine to the sun due to the low initial CYA. Using pool math you can calculate how many trichlor pucks it will take to get to your target and it is pretty accurate from what I have tested.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    I feel like a broken record, but here goes. I have taken 3 samples taken at the same time to 3 different pool stores within an hour, received 3 completely different sets of results along with 3 very expensive recommended buy lists.

    My testing with the TF-100 seems to be extremely accurate. I can run the tests multiple times and get the same results every time. I trust my results over a pool store any day.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    Not to test your accuracy, but to really be accurate you would have had to have 3 people take 3 samples taken at the same time, going to the pool store at the same time. You would have had to take all 3 from the same spot in the deep end. There are lots of variables that could have affected that. The pool water of 15 min ago from one spot is slightly different from the pool water from 15 min now from a different spot.
    Circa 20,000 gal IGP, 12 years old, Hayward SP2607X10, 1 hp single speed pump, Hayward S244T Sand filter, vinyl liner, using Aquacheck test strips and Taylor K-2006 Test Kit, 1 skimmer, 1 bottom drain, 2 jets (near stairs and on the opposite deep end)

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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    Not if you take one large sample and divide it up into smaller containers. And if your pump is running and you haven't added anything new for a while, it should be the same, save for the FC, which may go down if you have a bit f algae. But the CYA and other values would not fluctuate that quickly under normal circumstances.
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    I'd save the tabs and use them when you go on vacation. That way you won't have to do the cya test as often (using your own recommended test kit!!) I too had two pool stores perform tests over the time I was using solid stabilized chlorine. Neither of them was within 300ppm of what my cya was (350) when I finally bought my own kit. Pool store tests are worth exactly what you paid for them!
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    It's understandable to think that their computer testing is accurate, but they are not. There are many people here who can attest to their inaccuracy, as well as hundreds of people who have been using the TF-100 and K-2006 for years and can attest to the accuracy of those tests. So to be quite frank, what makes you think that just because they use a computer that they are more accurate?

    All that aside though, there is no real "hybrid" model. TFPC is about understanding the chemistry of your pool and how the chemicals you put in affect it. Trichlor is not banned as many think, I use it plenty. You must understand what will happen when it is used. To raise FC by 5 it will also raise your CYA by about 3 and lower pH by around 0.3 as well. Only using it when all those things are beneficial to the situation is the core of TFPC. If you don't yet completely grasp the chemistry (has taken me 5 years to get to this point) then the best bet is to change only a single variable at a time. The use of liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, and stabilizer separately help prevent mistakes.

    HOWEVER: to drive a point home, TFPC relies on proper, accurate, and timely test results.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    Quote Originally Posted by markuszoom5 View Post
    I take it to the pool store once a week, and they do the computer test. I feel like that is more accurate that even the test recommended here, but I could be wrong.

    Oh man, I feel like a chemist now after reading pool school over the past few months. I get all the relationships, just wanted to make sure there is not something else I am missing.
    You came here asking about your method of using chlorinating tablets and you have multiple members telling you it's OK as long as you understand the downside of more CYA with each tablet and the pH drop.
    You don't have a lot of posts but say you've been reading Pool School for the past few months. Sounds like you understand the chemistry and you are using them to your advantage.

    Why in the world when the same people tell you the pool store testing isn't accurate do you want to argue or try to come up with what appears to be a very lame excuse to brush away that very same expertise you came here seeking "Not to test your accuracy, but to really be accurate you would have had to have 3 people take 3 samples taken at the same time ..." Really, how about just taking it on faith since your voice is the only one that isn't saying not to trust the pool stores results ??
    I didn't go to three pool stores I went to one, the one I always used to go to. I took my water in three days in a row taken from the same area and my CYA went from 40 to 90 and back to 50 without having added any CYA recently or adding or draining any water. I like my pool store and usually they do good work as the results I used to relay on them for and then do an adjustment and a day or three later when I'd have it tested again I was pretty much where I thought I'd be. I pool stored it for six years before finding this method.

    It's not like anyone is telling you to go buy your own testing kit or an expensive testing kit. We are just warning you not to get fooled by the high tech tester or the assumption that the people at the pool store know what they are doing or even that they know more than you.

    Maybe it's time for a relaxing swim while you think it over. After all it's only water and we're trying to help.
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    opinions about hybrid approach

    TFPC is all about timely and accurate testing that you do yourself because you can always rely on yourself to create the same conditions each and every time.

    Even with a good pool store, you'll never get the same employee running your tests and their fancy electronic tester requires daily calibration to keep it in spec. There's just as much variability with that machine as there is with the humans running it.

    Also, why would you want to waste all that time and gas driving back and forth to the pool store? Once you get a good test kit (they are not that expensive) and you learn how to use it, you will be much faster and more accurate than any pool store tester which is only a benefit to you and your pool water.

    ----------Edit---------

    One other thought - If you ever have to do a SLAM, few pool stores and very few electronic testers are capable of reading FC values greater than 10ppm. Taylor drops based on the DPD-FAS chemistry can read FC at almost any level.


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    Re: opinions about hybrid approach

    Agreed Mark. Its Statistical Process Control IF you really want to get that serious/worried about it. Not for me ! I do enough of it at work.lol. I do Track and log each of my own daily test results, pump on time, temp, rain accum, PM maint etc.

    I also use both pucks and BBB depends on what my pool needs. Like Casey said the pucks drop the PH & TA & drive the up the CYA but I compensate by pointing my returns up to aerate the pool & keep PH balance. Many things you can do besides pouring this and that in every time the water "" gets OUT of balance "".
    20K gal, Fiberglass, 1.5 hp Century Pump, Sta-Rit System 3 Model PLM-100, 100 SQ Foot. Inline Frogger Chlorinater Mineral pack removed, adjusted the Chlorine pac to put in my own when on vacation. Liquid Pool Sanitizer,, BBB style.

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