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Thread: drain backing up...

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    drain backing up...

    Apologies in advance! I am a new home and pool owner so I am still learning correct terminology! There are small drains around the pool area. I assume to collect splash water? 1 of these drains is located in a dirt area just down a short slope from the pool equipment. Every time the pump turns on water flows up out of this drain flooding the area with mud. My husband wants to force a hose down the drain and flush it with water but I am afraid it will push the mud clog back into the pool or worse, back into the pump! How can I clear this drain and stop the flooding? As soon as we get the drain unplugged, we plan on Removing as much of the dirt as possible and pouring concrete in this area so it won't clog with mud again!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Turning on the pool pump should have no effect on a drainage drain ... they would not be connected.

    I am wondering if maybe you have a sand or DE filter and they have plumbed the waste port (used for backwashing) to that "drain" for a place to pump the water to. It could be that your backwash valve is leaking and thus making the water go there all the time? Although this would be partially draining the pool whenever the pump was on.

    Can you post pictures of your equipment and plumbing setup and this drain?
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    That makes no sense. The patio drains are for splashout and rainwater. Whether or not the pump is on should make no difference. I agree with Jason. ^^ It sounds like the waste port is plumbed to the drain and leaks. Are you losing a lot of water? It's probably not all evaporation.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    The pool does not drain, but the spa does. Immediately after the pump shuts off. We do have a DE filter. Trying to figure out how to post pics now.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    You can attached a limited amount directly in the post, but to post more/larger pictures, you either need to raise your storage allotment by Becoming a TFP Supporter or follow the How To Post Pictures tutorial.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Welcome to the forum
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    So here is a little background info: We purchased house 3/31/04. It was a shortsale and house had been vacant for over 7 months. Pool was a green swamp. We were going to drain and start with fresh water, but I took a sample to a local pool supply store and they said water was not that bad and we could save it. I purchased a deep leaf rake and scooped out pounds and pounds of debris. There was a very overgrown tropical landscape and more than a dozen honeysuckle bushes. The pool equipment are was completely covered with honeysuckle and rose bushes which we have removed so we could repair the pool equipment. The pump housing was cracked along with several other leaking pipes. So our home warranty co sent out a tech to repair the pipes and pump housing. He also replaced the check valve which he said would solve the spa draining into the pool after pump was turned off. I hired a pool man to come and teach me how to remove the filter, clean and re-install it. I wanted him to show me how everything worked so I could maintain the pool myself. He agreed and came out. After removing the filter housing he said that several of the grids were damaged/broken and it would be better to purchase new and replace them. I ordered the parts and he said he would return to show me how to re-assemble. He never returned and hasn't returned my calls. He did send me a bill for $345 charging for work he never finished! I googled everything and found your website. I figured out the rest and have done all the work so far on my own to get the pool in shape. YOUR WEBSITE HAS BEEN MY LIFELINE!!! I have DE 60sq ft filter. 15,000 gal pool. I have gone thru 2 gal of algaecide, 1 gal of phosphate remover, and about 20 gallons of chlorine. I have removed the filter grids and cleaned them 5 times and have been brushing and vacuuming daily for the past 2 months! But the pool is finally clean!!! Thought I was in the home stretch, but a week ago the spa started draining again and the back-up started coming from the drain... so any help you can give me would be awesome cause I am sick of working on this pool every day and would love to finally have a chance to relax and enjoy it!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I added pics from photobucket. it says it is waiting for admin to approve before they will display here.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    The pool draining is likely the check valve, unless one of the 3-way valves is partly open.

    Where is that drain in relation to everything else? I can not get a good layout in my head. That would be a weird place to put the backwash valve.

    How fast does water come out when the pump is on?
    Is it different in pool vs spa mode?
    Have you opened the backwash valve and turned the pump on to see if a lot more water comes out?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Welcome to the forum
    Can you please add you pool and spa info into your siganture as outlined here --> http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...etting-started

    Using algaecide shouldn't be necessary if you are following the recommendations here at TFP. Once you SLAM to clear the pool just maintaining the proper chlorine level (FC) in relation to your CYA level will keep you algae free. Algaecide can contain chemicals that can cause problems down the road. http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Pic 2 shows the drain that is backing up. it is just down grade from the pool equip. There is a backwash valve next to the filter, when I backwash water flows very quickly from that pipe. It usually floods at the area of the drain so I purchased a 100 foot backwash hose so I can get the water all the way to the street in front of my house.
    there is just a slow bubbling up from the drain when the pump is running that floods the area around the drain.
    Murrieta CA. 19,100 gallon IG pebble pool. Hayward DE 60sq ft Pro-Grid. 2HP Ultra flow Circulation Pump "the Californian". Built 10/29/99 by California Pools & Spas. Taylor Tech Deluxe Poolcare DPD test kit. Spa with waterfall into pool. Polaris 280. NON-SWG.

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    Re: drain backing up...

    You have two problems.
    1) Your backwash valve is leaking. There should be no water coming out the waste port unless you're actually backwashing.
    2) Your drain pipe is clogged. The leaking backwash valve shouldn't be obvious, but it is because the pipe is clogged, so instead of running off to wherever, it backs up in the yard.

    The backwash valve can be overhauled pretty easily. It just needs a new O-ring set most likely. The clogged drain might require a rooter service. If the drains are like mine,a Drain KingŪ inflatable bladder won't work - it'll just send water backwards out the other drains around the pool. What might do the trick is a long plumber's snake, fed in from that overflowing drain, and then hit backwash while it's in the pipe spinning. That could break the dam and get the water flowing out to the gutter or wherever it leads.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: drain backing up...

    Sounds like it's the spider gasket in the multiport valve. You can do just the spider gasket or you can get a "go kit" depending on what valve you have.
    Here is a youtube on the spider gasket: https://www.google.com/#q=youtube+multiport+spider
    Here is a link to a go kit, not necesairly for yours: http://www.inyopools.com/Products/00...FcVAMgod-1cA2g
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    Sounds like it's the spider gasket in the multiport valve. You can do just the spider gasket or you can get a "go kit" depending on what valve you have.
    Here is a youtube on the spider gasket: https://www.google.com/#q=youtube+multiport+spider
    Here is a link to a go kit, not necesairly for yours: http://www.inyopools.com/Products/00...FcVAMgod-1cA2g
    No. She has a push-pull valve, as the picture shows.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    Thank you!!! I have a long snake so I can do that asap. Should I replace the o ring 1st to make sure no mud gets into filter? Or wait till after to make sure I don't blow the ring again with the pressure?
    Murrieta CA. 19,100 gallon IG pebble pool. Hayward DE 60sq ft Pro-Grid. 2HP Ultra flow Circulation Pump "the Californian". Built 10/29/99 by California Pools & Spas. Taylor Tech Deluxe Poolcare DPD test kit. Spa with waterfall into pool. Polaris 280. NON-SWG.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    I'd overhaul the backwash valve first, not that there's much risk of mud flowing uphill, but because moving the valve up and down to backwash could make the leak worse.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: drain backing up...

    Ok then , , , lets try this again. Video of overhaul of push pull valve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAsW0uXFWbo

    And for parts shopping : https://www.google.com/#q=replace+pu...valve&tbm=shop or local pool store too.


    Replacing the seals in the valve will prevent the leak you have so you need to do it anyway. Might as well do it first like Richard suggested as fixing the leak might give you more pressure and help push the clog out. Small chance of that but as long as you have to do the valve anyway might as well give it a try.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    So I think I have maybe figured out what is wrong and why my my drain is backing up... My spa drains when the pump turns off. Water flows down into the pool and the water runs thru the overflow and then backs up the drain! We do have a crack in the drain pipe that we are getting fixed, just working on the spa draining problem now! It is not the check valve. Found another post about spa draining and I think the spa valve gasket is leaking at the bottom of the spa... Just to make a quick "venting observation" I find it really ridiculous that I call my home warranty co (Old Republic) they send out a "professional" to diagnose the problem (an 18 year old kid!), they call me and tell me he can't find the problem but after just 10 mins here on your website I can find the problem by myself!! I pay them $60 to do NOTHING! and I can buy the parts and fix it myself for less! LOVE YOU GUYS!!! I think you guys are great!!! Thank you so much for being here and helping frustrated new pool owners like me!!! <3
    Murrieta CA. 19,100 gallon IG pebble pool. Hayward DE 60sq ft Pro-Grid. 2HP Ultra flow Circulation Pump "the Californian". Built 10/29/99 by California Pools & Spas. Taylor Tech Deluxe Poolcare DPD test kit. Spa with waterfall into pool. Polaris 280. NON-SWG.

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    AnnetteSimpson's Avatar
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    Re: drain backing up...

    So now I just have to figure out what kind of valve us down at the bottom of the spa and where to find the parts! Any suggestions?
    Murrieta CA. 19,100 gallon IG pebble pool. Hayward DE 60sq ft Pro-Grid. 2HP Ultra flow Circulation Pump "the Californian". Built 10/29/99 by California Pools & Spas. Taylor Tech Deluxe Poolcare DPD test kit. Spa with waterfall into pool. Polaris 280. NON-SWG.

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