Air in intex pump

[ShalomRanch]

Hi,

I just recently refilled my pool. My water is oxygen injected before passing through a filter and softener, and so there's a lot of air in the pool water right now. What I'm noticing is that the pump is filling up with air - within 5 minutes of running I can tell the difference in sound, stop the pump and open the air release valve and air hisses out for 10-15 seconds.

Thanks to some recent pains with my septic system, I'm painfully aware that air in an effluent pump is a Bad Thing. But, the impeller on an effluent pump is on the side, where it appears the intex pump has it on the bottom, after the filter chamber. So - is this a big problem? Is the sound difference I'm hearing the pump starting to cavitate? Do I need to babysit this thing until some of the O2 works its way out of the pool water? Or, will the air the enters the filter chamber just rise to the top, allowing the impeller to still do it's job properly?

FYI I have double checked all the connections and everything seems to be on tight, there don't appear to be any air leaks in the hoses, etc. The pool was brand new 2 weeks ago and I didn't have this problem before refilling. Of course I didn't run the filter for the first day or two, which led to lots of other problems but that's another story

Thanks!

 

[waste]

Peter, welcome to TFP!!

I doubt the micro bubbles in the water would build up enough to 'starve' the pump. Is the water high enough in the pool or is the skimmer weir stuck closed? (easiest way to check is to look in the skimmer and make sure no air is being sucked down the pipe).

I wish you well with figuring this out and will keep an eye on this thread, in case you have more questions or info on what's going on

 

[ShalomRanch]

Thanks waste - no skimmer, just an output and a return, both definitely under water... any other ideas?

Do you have an opinion on whether the amount of air I'm describing in the filter chamber will starve the pump, regardless (for now) of the source?

Thanks,

 

[waste]

Sorry I don't know all the different pool brands out there, or all the models - so sometimes I mention something stupid like a skimmer on your type pool

Anyway, another thing to now check for (as you have no skimmer and therefore, no skimmer basket) is a clogged impeller. To check the impeller, TURN OFF THE PUMP! & remove the lid and basket and reach your fingers into the back hole in the pump housing and feel for debris. If you feel some, get it out of there. What it could be is the pump cavitating from an obstruction in the suction line or pump (including the impeller) - check the suction line and the pump inlet and basket for clogged up stuff.

I sure hope that someone familiar with your type set up will step in and mention any other places an obstruction can occur

I'll stick with this as long as it takes to resolve the issue, but may have to ask you for a picture or link to the parts manual to finally figure out where this air is coming from 8)

 

[Crzyfrlss1]

I sure hope that someone familiar with your type set up will step in and mention any other places an obstruction can occur

Sure thing

Usually on the suction side of these pumps there is some type hicky-doo screen where debris collects usually restricting flow to the pump.

Or in some cases plugging it completely.

So check that as well.

 

[waste]

I sure hope that someone familiar with your type set up will step in and mention any other places an obstruction can occur

Sure thing

Usually on the suction side of these pumps there is some type hicky-doo screen where debris collects usually restricting flow to the pump.

Or in some cases plugging it completely.

So check that as well.

:bowdown: Thank you neighbor!

 

[Crzyfrlss1]

:bowdown: Thank You Neighbor

You're welcome Waste

One other thing I thought of...

If you've got air bubbles coming out of the return there is certainly a leak somewhere, usually easy to find with the pump turned off. Might take some time though, you'll be looking for awhile it it's a slow one.

Check all of your o-rings and connections too.

 

[ShalomRanch]

I've checked for debris in the impeller and the suction side line, nothing there. There aren't any bubbles coming out of the return per se - air is building up in the filter chamber, I have to frequently stop the pump and open the air release valve at the top and it hisses out.

Tomorrow I'll try leaving the pump off and looking for water leaking out anywhere.

There is a serious amount of air in the pool water itself though, it's on every surface - put the ladder in and it collected there too. The pool looks like a big honking glass of 7-Up. The oxygen injection system is pretty heavy duty, it oxygenates both the house water (which we used to fill the pool) and the unfiltered water that goes to the 3 watering bowls for the horses. Maybe tomorrow I'll throw the kiddie-winkies in and tell 'em to stir everything up and see what that does? Might still be a bit cold but hey, it'll toughen 'em up right?

Peter

 

[launboy]

I'm just curious, what is the purpose of an Oxygenator and having extra oxygen in the water? I would imagine that as it all bubbles out, your PH will increase like it would if you were aerating.

Is this the pump you have?

I was going to suggest making sure the air relief screw on the top of the impeller housing was tight and not letting any air in, but going off that pic, you don't have one. If you do, it would be something to check.

Also, to be sure it's not one of your connections you can put shaving cream on them and watch to see where it gets sucked in, or you could pour water over it and see if air continues to build in the Filter. I don't see any problem with having air trapped in the filter. What damage could it do? Water will still be flowing through the cart. and the air will just build up until it comes out the return.

HTH,
Adam

 

[ShalomRanch]

The oxygenator is not specifically for the pool, I just can't avoid it when filling the pool as it's the first step in my water treatment system for the well water. The purpose is two clump the iron particles so they can be filtered out by the rust buster for the house water, and so they settle to the bottom of the watering bowls for the livestock. The horses also like the taste of oxygenated water better and will drink more.

My pump/filter is very similiar to the pic you showed. No, I don't have an air release valve near the impeller housing just a main one at the top of the filter chamber.

It's my understanding that air bubbles in the impeller chamber are nearly as harmful as sand or any other abrasive fine particle, it will damage the impeller. Also, it will cause the water in the impeller chamber to actually heat up and become steam. This is a Bad Thing. If you get air in the impeller chamber instead of water the pump will not move water. However, I'm starting to suspect with these pumps this is not going to be an issue as the air appears to be staying in the filter chamber. I ran my pump all night and it still has normal seeming output this morning.

One weird thing that's throwing me though - like you I thought my PH would rise due to all the air in the pool water, but it seems to be dropping. I say seems because I'm stuck with test strips for this year (I know - I'll get a proper kit next season but this season only has a few weeks left in it). As near as I can tell, I'm down to somewhere between 6.8 and 7.2 this morning. So, I put the return line from the pump over the side of the inflatable ring and tied it to the ladder with baling twine to aerate the water and raise the PH. Which is really weird that I would need to do that...?

Also, I visually inspected all the connections with the pump off, couldn't detect any water seeping out anywhere. Didn't try the shaving cream thing yet - but this pool is brand new and it hasn't been abused or anything, there really shouldn't be any holes or leaks.

Peter

 

[launboy]

I also have test strips, and a kit. When I check with the test strips, I always get the 6.8-7.2 range, but when I do it with the drop based kit, it's usually 7.4.

Even if the pool is brand new, one of the fitting might be a little loose and allowing air in. Last year I had a leak in our pool, it was where the hose connected to the pump. I cranked that hose clamp down so hard I needed a drill to get it off and the stupid thing still leaked. I ended up taking it off and putting some gorilla glue in the hose nipple, and that stopped the leak, but it was a pain to get off in the fall.

HTH,
Adam

 

[Zoria]

I sure hope that someone familiar with your type set up will step in and mention any other places an obstruction can occur

Sure thing

Usually on the suction side of these pumps there is some type hicky-doo screen where debris collects usually restricting flow to the pump.

Or in some cases plugging it completely.

So check that as well.

I usually just read on this forum but wanted to say thanks for this post. I had bubbles, too and couldn't figure it out. Sure enough, there was a trap by the pump that needed cleaning. I never thought to look there till I read this post. (Didn't even know there was one there.) Quick and easy fix to my bubble problem. Thanks!

 

[Nick]

Hi Peter,

If you can't avoid oxygenating the water and the pump is then agitating and freeing the O2 then you could try coming up with a solution similar to what you would find in a central heating system - an automatic air valve or air eliminator.
If you could add an automatic air eliminator on to the top of your pump it would automatically bleed the air from your system. An example of what I mean
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/automatic-a ... s-229-0000

All you would need then would be to make an adapter to go from the top of the pump to the base of the air vent.