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Thread: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

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    Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Hi, first of all, this web site is a goldmine! This is my first pool which came with the house I moved into last December and the advice I was getting from a certain unnamed store and the pool service company that opened it was a bit uneven, to put it diplomatically.

    Yesterday afternoon (Tuesday) we got a torrential downpour (as bad as any hurricane I have been in) and when I got home, the shallow end had a brown cloud in it and the deep end skimmer was almost opaque with brown water which was oozing into the pool. I guess the drainage channel between the pool and the ground behind the house (which slopes to the pool deck) got overwhelmed and some muddy water washed into the shallow end. The deep end skimmer symptoms indicate water seeped into the piping system somewhere but that is a project for another day. I turned on the pump for several minutes to suck the deep end skimmer muddy water to waste and meant to add chlorine later that night but forgot to.

    The next morning the pool had a uniform light haze to it. I thought it might have a slightly green hue to it so was concerned about algae. I poured in 2x96 oz. of 13.3% sodium hypochlorite (good for 5 ppm rise in 20K gal.) with the plan of buying some more that afternoon and shocking to 18-20 ppm (I have about 45 ppm CYA).

    When I got back home (with 10 gallons of 12.2% sodium hypochlorite!) the water was a little clearer. I tested the water (Taylor) and got this result.

    FC 6 ppm TC 6 ppm
    pH 8
    TA 130 ppm (Carbonate Alkalinity is 113.4 ppm)
    CYA 46 ppm

    I did not test CH because I am having issues with getting a clear reading (topic for another post) but it is probably over 200 ppm. I have been getting some fine precipitate from time to time. I used the Taylor test kit saturation index and assumed CH was 225.

    SI was .6

    I calculated I needed 1.8 quarts of acid to get to pH 7.5. I added 1 quart to see what would happen. Retested after two hours and pH is about 7.8

    I was expecting a significant difference between FC and TC due to organics combining with chlorine. The lack of significant combined chlorine (I recognize I might not be seeing a slight color change) tells me that the haze was not algae at all. It was probably the silt getting evenly spread and with the blue background and sun shining through some nearby trees, it took on a very slight green hue. When I removed some leaves on the bottom with the pool rake, I could see a faint cloud getting stirred up which could be settled silt, explaining why the haze was reduced.

    Does that make sense?
    And why would the pH go up so much. It was about 7.6 before the storm. Between the rain and the runoff, the pool gained 3 to 3.5 inches.

    The major reason for this post is: What should I do now to make sure the pool is ready for the big Friday afternoon 16th birthday party? (I am posting this Wednesday night and the earliest I can do anything is Thursday morning.)

    1) Play it safe and raise chlorine to 18 ppm and hope it lowers by Friday afternoon or just keep monitoring for a difference between FC and TC? (I would rather not have to dump sulfites in later.)

    2) Put in something to clear the haze? I have two products:
    HTH Natural Clarifier containing chitosan
    HTH Flocculant containing aluminum chloride

    3) Add some algaecide? Regal Algaecide 60, active ingredient has an amazingly long name (even for someone that had 6 college chemistry courses!) but I'm guessing dimethylimino is the active group.

    I generally like the idea of minimizing any substance that will stay in the water and accumulate.

    I also have HTH Enzyme Cleaner which does not seem to list the active ingredient but precautions are liberally sprinkled on the bottle.

    I will be vacuuming the pool at some point but I'm not sure if I should coordinate that with using a clarifier or flocculant.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Welcome to TFP!

    Your other thread indicates that you are using a Taylor test kit, which particular kit are you using?
    I'd suggest that you keep your posts together as it allows us to see the full picture when answering any questions.

    With a greenish hue, a SLAM is definitely recommended. However, with your pH in the upper 7's, you should bringing the pH down to the low 7's before slamming.
    When using PoolMath, input the TA which is tested, rather than the adjusted TA / carbonate alkalinity.

    Not all organics cause an increase in CC levels.
    Please remove all the leaves from the bottom of the pool if you haven't already done so, it isn't quite clear whether you have "removed some leaves" or whether you "had some leaves which were (all) removed".

    Your pH increase is due to aeration of water by the rain and your TA. Keep an eye on your pH and dose muriatic acid accordingly, your TA will come down over time.

    We do not generally recommend the use of floc/clarifier/algaecide/enzyme cleaners.

    Finally, please read ABCs of pool water chemistry and recommended pool chemicals if you haven't already done so.

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    The major reason for this post is: What should I do now to make sure the pool is ready for the big Friday afternoon 16th birthday party? (I am posting this Wednesday night and the earliest I can do anything is Thursday morning.)
    I would hope for the very best of luck but I don't think your filtration system will have enough "oomph" to clear out that much dirt in that short of time.

    The best advice I can give is running your pump 24/7, brushing your pool every chance you get, and cleaning your filter every time it needs it. I wish I could be more positive but there is a basic design flaw if you decking is sloped to allow run-off water back to your pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Can you vacuum to waste some of the dirt on the bottom?
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
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    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    I would vac all the dirt out first. You will have to clean the DE filter a lot! All the while, SLAM'ing the pool.

    I don't know if you will get it done by tomorrow though... I'd sure give it heck though.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    The decking slopes slightly from the pool but the the downpour was incredible so I am guessing the small drainage channel between the ground and the deck was completely overwhelmed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    Can you vacuum to waste some of the dirt on the bottom?
    I am planning on vacuuming. I wanted to see if it was advised to add clarifier or flocculent first.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Don't stall yourself using products that we don't recommend. SLAM the pool and vac it.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    I would vac all the dirt out first. You will have to clean the DE filter a lot! All the while, SLAM'ing the pool.

    I don't know if you will get it done by tomorrow though... I'd sure give it heck though.
    I've got over 3 inches to spare so I can vacuum a good bit to waste.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Thank you everyone for your amazingly quick replies. The overall consensus is to SLAM but that chlorine levels will not fall to recommended swimming levels by tomorrow afternoon.

    The pool looks clearer this morning. I vacuumed this morning and added another quart of acid, aiming for 7.4 pH. The shallow end looks about as close to crystal clear as it has been for the last 6 weeks. The deep end seems a little less clear.

    Since I am still not certain it was actually algae and not just silt, and there will be 20 teenage girls here on Friday expecting to swim, I am going to err to the side of having the pool swimable on Friday afternoon. (Remember, I'm new at this so have no frame of reference for what an algae haze would look like, other than a really deep green from neglected pools at homes for sale.) So I have added enough chlorine for a 4-5 ppm bump (the level was about 4 this morning. Between having added the chlorine in full sun and leaving the cover off tonight, I'm guessing I might lose about 2 ppm so I'm hoping levels are no more than 7 ppm tomorrow morning, which with a CYA of 46, sounds pretty good to me.

    I will be running the pump/filter/Polaris all day, reinspect/test and possibly run the filter all night.

    If it wasn't for the pool party coming up, I would be SLAMing with enthusiasm, having the utmost respect for the experience of the members here.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    You can swim up to SLAM level ... so it will certainly fall below that if you do not raise it too high.
    Raise it to shock level now and it will certainly be safe to swim tomorrow ... assuming you can see the bottom.

    Plus, with that many swimmers, you want to start with extra FC in the pool and likely will need a bump afterward as well ... especially with all the make-up, hair products, and oils/lotions that they are going to introduce to your water
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-Bob View Post
    Thank you everyone for your amazingly quick replies. The overall consensus is to SLAM but that chlorine levels will not fall to recommended swimming levels by tomorrow afternoon.

    The pool looks clearer this morning. I vacuumed this morning and added another quart of acid, aiming for 7.4 pH. The shallow end looks about as close to crystal clear as it has been for the last 6 weeks. The deep end seems a little less clear.

    Since I am still not certain it was actually algae and not just silt, and there will be 20 teenage girls here on Friday expecting to swim, I am going to err to the side of having the pool swimable on Friday afternoon. (Remember, I'm new at this so have no frame of reference for what an algae haze would look like, other than a really deep green from neglected pools at homes for sale.) So I have added enough chlorine for a 4-5 ppm bump (the level was about 4 this morning. Between having added the chlorine in full sun and leaving the cover off tonight, I'm guessing I might lose about 2 ppm so I'm hoping levels are no more than 7 ppm tomorrow morning, which with a CYA of 46, sounds pretty good to me.

    I will be running the pump/filter/Polaris all day, reinspect/test and possibly run the filter all night.

    If it wasn't for the pool party coming up, I would be SLAMing with enthusiasm, having the utmost respect for the experience of the members here.
    As you are looking at the water, the shallow end is just as cloudy as the deep end. It is just that you are looking through more water in the deep end. With 46 CYA (50) 4 FC is the absolute minimum you should ever have in the pool. Your target is 6 and with a planned pool party you should bump it higher than that. remember, it is safe to swim all the way up to your CYA adjusted shock level, which for you is 20 FC. Don't confuse yourself with the pool store information of keeping it at 1 - 3, they forget or don't know - CYA matters.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail K View Post
    Welcome to TFP!

    Your other thread indicates that you are using a Taylor test kit, which particular kit are you using?
    I bought the kit at Leslie's so they have their own label but I seem to remember asking for the K-2006 and by looking at the Taylor web site, that is the one that matches but visually, the tests it contains, and by price.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Cool Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    As you are looking at the water, the shallow end is just as cloudy as the deep end. It is just that you are looking through more water in the deep end. With 46 CYA (50) 4 FC is the absolute minimum you should ever have in the pool. Your target is 6 and with a planned pool party you should bump it higher than that. remember, it is safe to swim all the way up to your CYA adjusted shock level, which for you is 20 FC. Don't confuse yourself with the pool store information of keeping it at 1 - 3, they forget or don't know - CYA matters.
    Yes, I am aware of the difference that distance can make. My point was that the shallow end indicated progress while the deep end indicated I wasn't quite there at that point. However, by yesterday evening, the pool was back to its original clarity (before the rainstorm). I think I was wrong in describing a greenish hue. The impression of green was extremely slight and was made in comparison to completely clear water. I think it was the blue background filtered through a silty haze. I tested FC last night and tonight and there is no perceivable difference with my Taylor K-2006 kit. (Is there a Taylor kit that can measure more precisely for the OCLT?) FC seems to be about 9 (the color is definitely deeper than the 7.5 color and slightly paler than the 10 color.)

    pH was 7.7 at 11 AM so I added a 1.15 quarts to get to 7.4. (2 drops, 20,000 gallons.)

    You and at least one other said it was OK to swim at up to shock level but what about the effects of the higher level on swimsuits, etc. I seem to remember some posts indicating while it was doable, it was best to avoid swimming at shock levels.

    Oh, and I gave up on pool store advice regarding chemicals an hour after finding this web site.
    Last edited by NJ-Bob; 07-18-2014 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Forgot an additional comment
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Wait, are you sure you got the right test kit? There is no color matching required for the FC and CC tests if you have the FAS-DPD chlorine test.

    You add a powder and then count drops to turn the water from pink to clear.

    You would not be the first person that was sold the wrong kit but Leslie's and told it was the same thing.

    The active chlorine level at shock level is still significantly less than in an unstabilized public pool with only 2ppm of FC ... you will not notice any added damage to suits/skin/hair.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    You can swim up to SLAM level ... so it will certainly fall below that if you do not raise it too high.
    Raise it to shock level now and it will certainly be safe to swim tomorrow ... assuming you can see the bottom.

    Plus, with that many swimmers, you want to start with extra FC in the pool and likely will need a bump afterward as well ... especially with all the make-up, hair products, and oils/lotions that they are going to introduce to your water
    Good point about the drug store products. My FC is now at 9 ppm and I was bumming that it had not lowered from yesterday noon to closer to 6 (although that is actually a good sign). Your point indicates I'm at a good level now, pre-party, assuming I never had algae in the first place, which all indications at this point say I didn't.
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    You're right! I don't have the K-2006. I looked at the picture on the web site more closely and there is an extra container. That must be the powder. I can't find a test kit on their site that matches mine exactly (Chlorine, TA, CH, CYA, pH, not FAS.)

    I've been wondering how people have been detecting CC of .5 or so by matching shades of pink/red.

    Do you know if I can get a kit just to do FAS testing? The Taylor site is hard to search when you get a list of 30 or more kits.

    I guess I don't know if my CC is 0 or not. I'll definitely be SLAMing tonight after the party!
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    You have the equivalent of the K-2005 with the DPD chlorine test.
    You can add just the FAS-DPD portion: FAS-DPD Chlorine Test

    Problem is, how to know what your FC level is to know how much FC to add to reach the shock target and how to test to maintain it there? Dave ships out of NC, so you should get the kit pretty quickly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Taylor number is K-1515, but you get more of the reagents ordering from Dave at tftestkits.net
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    You have the equivalent of the K-2005 with the DPD chlorine test.
    You can add just the FAS-DPD portion: FAS-DPD Chlorine Test

    Problem is, how to know what your FC level is to know how much FC to add to reach the shock target and how to test to maintain it there? Dave ships out of NC, so you should get the kit pretty quickly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Taylor number is K-1515, but you get more of the reagents ordering from Dave at tftestkits.net
    Thanks. I have ordered the kit and some more CYA reagent from this site.

    I'm not sure I understand your point about "the problem.... knowing the FC level to know how much FC to add.....". The kit I have does test FC although it is a bit inexact from 7.5 to 10 and 10 is the upper limit. Is that what you mean? Knowing exactly what my starting point is before I add more HClO? I'm assumed if I take the lowest possible measure I could interpret from the DPD test, and add enough HClO to get to shock level, it would be OK if I ended up a little over, maybe 2 ppm over.

    Anyway, thanks for the catch on the kit. You must be an editor!
    Irregular shaped vinyl pool - about 22K
    Hayward DE 6020 filter, Hayward Tri-Chlor Feeder
    Aqua Comfort Heat Pump Heater
    Polaris 380
    Taylor K-2006; FAS/DPD kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Daughter's 16th B-day party coming and the pool just got flooded and hazy

    Yeah, I just meant is not not going to be possible to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process correctly without the FAS-DPD.

    You can get started, but you will not be able to test again soon to MAINTAIN the FC at shock level.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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