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Thread: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

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    New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Hello all,

    As a lot of other users, I just bought a house with a pool, only to find out afterwards that the pool system had been neglected for some time. Since I just bought the house, and I can pretty much figure out a lot of things out from a logical perspective (computer guy here, shhh...), I am trying to do anything I can by myself, buying parts online, etc.

    Once we moved in, I found out that the filter casing was cracked on the back and leaking - the previous owner didn't run the pump all the time, so you can imagine how the pool was.

    I bought a new Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot filter, and installed it myself, upgraded to a temporary plumbing setup (I didn't have time to buy all the valves and joins that should have been used), until I can get a better design and all the valves and joins properly installed for a pool setup.

    This is what the old setup looked like:

    Attachment 31806

    I circled the pipes coming from the pool, because according to the home inspectors, the Y pipe was reversed. If you look at it, and follow the flow of the water to the pump, it is reversed. So, I attempted to fix it when I installed the new filter.

    This is the new setup:

    Attachment 31807

    Attachment 31808


    Questions:



    Pressure issue:

    I labeled the pipes from pure guess, because there are no markings. But I think that now I know why the Y pipe was reversed - it seems to be so that the pressure was almost all coming from the skimmer line. When I changed the setup, the straight line of the Y pipe seems to now be on the main drain line, which removed pressure from the skimmer line, which I had my barracuda plugged in. Now the barracuda doesn't work any more.

    I replaced the filter and pipes on Saturday, and because the water was so bad, I kept the pump running for about 30+ hours straight (Sat 6PM to Mon 1AM), because of the new filter, and I did a triple shock, added algaecide and a clarifier (I will have another post on the subject later) because the water was pretty bad.

    On Sunday night I noticed that the pressure dropped - but it was OK during the day on Sunday. The jets are not blowing as they were anymore, and on Monday morning they seem to be blowing a lot less.

    This morning I dropped some water inside of the pump (read it somewhere online) and started it. I noticed now that there is a rattling noise coming from it during the start up. The noise wasn't there before. Anyone has any ideas on how I can solve this pressure and noise issue hopefully without replacing the pump as well?



    Piping setup:

    I want to re-do the pipes, add the proper valves, and unions to make it serviceable later. I was thinking of a setup kind of like this one, of course, just looking at this system without the heater etc.

    So, basically I will be adding shutoff valves for the skimmer and main drain, and unions - does this sound like a good setup?
    Should I also add a shutoff valve to the return (filter to pool)?



    Pump vs Filter
    Is this filter size compatible with this pump size?
    Before I bought it online I went to a Leslie's Pool store and asked which filter I should get for my pool and they suggested the Hayward C1200.



    I would appreciate the help
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    First I must point out that ALL of those fittings appear to be DWV fittings which are not pressure rated and not appropriate for use in this manner. When you re-do the plumbing, use schedule 40 PVC fittings ... don't make the same mistake as the previous owner.

    Also, use proper pool valves, like the Jandy Neverlube. You could use a single 3-way valve between the 2 suctions lines that would allow you to adjust the flow.

    Do you have any high flow needs in the pool? That pump seems to be massively oversized for the pool and thus likely oversized for the filter.

    For a 15k pool, I would have recommended a minimum cartridge filter size of 225 sqft, especially since you are open year round.
    For the pump, assuming there is nothing crazy that you have not yet mentioned, a smaller 1HP 2-speed pump like the Superflo would be a much better fit and save a good bit of electricity costs.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Thanks for the quick reply @jblizzle.

    I didn't know about the schedule 40 PVC fittings, I will look at the new ones I bought and make sure they are, otherwise I will return and buy new ones.

    Yes. The pump looks to be too big for this setup. Although I do plan to add a solar heater (roof) for the winter time, maybe next year, would a 1HP still be OK if I add solar heating?

    Do you have any suggestions on troubleshooting the current problem with the pressure?
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Welcome! I just bought and installed the same filter - hopefully you got the good price on Amazon! Although it's undersized for my pool (21K gallons) based on recommendations here, it's working great and a big improvement over the 75sqft filter that was installed when I bought the house 5 years ago. That pump is probably a bit oversized for it though; mine works great with a 1 HP pump.

    Your pressure issues may just be normal though for starting up a very dirty pool. Until it's cleared up you may need to clean the cartridge every few days; watch the pressure gauge and clean it when it goes up over the recommended percent or whenever you notice lower flow... The clarifier you added may have clogged up the filter pretty quick! Most folks here strictly use liquid chlorine to clear a pool as most times anything else is not necessary.

    The pump noise is concerning - you may have sucked something into the impeller. Make sure the pump basket is in place and clean. If the noise keeps up you may need to take it apart and check the impeller - or your motor bearings might be going bad... You'll definitely want valves for each suction line so you can adjust and put most of suction to the skimmer for your cleaner to work properly.

    JBlizzle is right about the plumbing - wrong material but easy mistake. That type of pvc is for vents and drains. You need the good Sched 40 PVC for pressure applications. It's usually across the aisle at Lowes... You can also get regular PVC ball valves from Lowes to use temporarily until you get the kind JB recommends.

    There's lots of other folks on here that can better help you match filter and pumps but since you just bought the new filter don't worry, it will work just fine!

    Hopefully your reading pool school and getting a good test kit ordered. Soon you'll be enjoying your new pool!
    16 x 32 inground vinyl pool (21000 gallons) (new liner installed 2014)
    Hayward max flo pump w/ 1 HP AO Smith motor (new motor 2014)
    Hayward C1200 cartridge filter (new 2014)
    Hayward H150 heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    The 1HP pump I mentioned works fine for my large solar setup (which is a LONG run of 1.5" pipe so not ideal at all).

    With algae in the water, your cartridge will likely clog in a matter of hours. Clearing up a dirty pool with a cartridge filter is a bit of a pain ... especially when it is undersized.

    You should clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% over the clean pressure.

    BTW, are you following the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process to clear up the pool using one of the Recommended Test Kits?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Thanks guys. It's a lot of information. I have just started looking at this forum, and now at the Pool School. Lots of good information.

    I did buy a test kit online (5 way), but I don't think it is one of the recommended ones. I will have more questions about about testing and chemicals later.

    For now, I have been able to keep it pretty much stabilized with 2/3 tablets of chlorine in the floater + 1 tablet of ARM & HAMMER Clear Balance Pool Maintenance Tablets per week, and regulating the PH when is high or low. But I have only been at this house and treating the pool for the past 4 weeks, and until this past Saturday, I had the old cracked filter was in, and it was disgusting.

    @Sminor, I think I paid $272 with free shipping on amazon. They were selling this one for $465 at Leslie's.

    I will check the filter, and attempt to clean it up. It sound right though, the pressure dropped Sunday night right after I added the water clarifier.

    I will post back once I have made some more attempts later this afternoon.

    Thanks!
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    For safety reasons, I wouldn't put a shutoff valve on the skimmer unless you have 2 main drains.

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Hi @vsyzer, thanks for that!
    I only have one drain... so no shutoff valve. So, I guess the best setup is to go with a 3-way valve there?

    Thanks again.
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Guys, my wife just sent me a pic of the pressure gauge on the filter - the pump's been running since 10am. What's the recommended pressure? It seems pretty low. But even when Sunday morning, when I thought the water pressure was OK, it was did not go over 10psi.

    Attachment 31820
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Seems low. I notice your gauge is cracked, funny cause when I got the new filter mine was cracked much worse in shipping. I replaced it with the gauge from my old filter. With my 1 hp pump and same filter brand new my pressure started at 12 psi. Did she say it looked like it was sucking air somewhere?
    16 x 32 inground vinyl pool (21000 gallons) (new liner installed 2014)
    Hayward max flo pump w/ 1 HP AO Smith motor (new motor 2014)
    Hayward C1200 cartridge filter (new 2014)
    Hayward H150 heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Lower pressure almost always has to be a clog in the suction line or in the impeller, or skimmer / pump basket full of debris, or a suction side leak.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    @Sminor, yes it's cracked from shipping. A little piece on the lip of base of the filter is also cracked, I guess the guys are UPS are not very careful when handling stuff

    @Jason, thanks for the tip. I will investigate this when I get home. I cleaned both the skimmer and pump baskets. I hope it is the impeller (I can check this by sticking my hand in there correct? - with the pump off, of course ). How can I test for a clog in the suction line? The to be sure of the terms here, please bear it with me. When you say "suction line" you are talking about the skimmer/main line from the pool into the pump right?

    Thanks!
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Yes that is what I mean by suction line. You can feel part of the impeller that way, or pull the 4-8 bolts to split the pump and inspect the entire impeller.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    And If I open the pump/check the impeller and I don't find anything wrong. Is there an easy way to test/clear the suction lines?

    Thanks!
    30'x15' (3"-6")(15K+ Gallons); Hayward C1200 Star-Clear Plus 120-Square-Foot; Pentair SuperFlo - Two Speed - 1 HP - Barracuda G3

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Open the pump lid and run a hose backward toward the pool with a drain king or rag around the hose.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Quote Originally Posted by alexvilper View Post
    Hi @vsyzer, thanks for that!
    I only have one drain... so no shutoff valve. So, I guess the best setup is to go with a 3-way valve there?

    Thanks again.
    I wouldn't think you need a 3-way valve, probably just a shutoff for the main drain so you can get more suction on the skimmer and get the flow right for the baracuda.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Quote Originally Posted by vsyzer View Post
    I wouldn't think you need a 3-way valve, probably just a shutoff for the main drain so you can get more suction on the skimmer and get the flow right for the baracuda.
    That would then prevent only having suction from floor which might be good for partial draining.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    That would then prevent only having suction from floor which might be good for partial draining.
    You could always plug the skimmer and have the main drain open if draining the pool is needed. For safety sake, I wouldn't want to have a valve on the skimmer that someone could inadvertently leave closed and all the suction is on the main drain. There has been fatalities from becoming trapped from the suction of the main drain.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    Which is why you use a 3 way valve with stops to prevent that. The Pentair valves have external stops that you can easily adjust too not allow the skimmer to be closed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New pool owner (previously neglected pool) - piping question

    A 3-way with stops will not prevent that. If it can easily be adjusted to not allow it to be closed, it can easily be adjust to allow it to be closed.

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