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Thread: Should I be concerned?

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Should I be concerned?

    I had previously posted about having clouds of "dust" when I brushed at night. After two weeks after cleaning filter and brushing 2-3 times per day and running pump more often than usual (before was like 2-3 hours 2500rpm and maybe 4 at 1000-1750 rpm, added 3 hours or more per night at various speeds) the plumes of dust are largely gone when brushing. But I still have light colored, almost transparent floaties that I can even see during the day when sun is less intense. Thin slivers, less than the size of a broken in half grain of rice. Almost look like broken insect wings. Other than a few light brown flakes, most likely leaf fragments based on what ends up in the skimmer and filter basket, there is no other colors. No black, no yellow, no green. Filter pressure steady, shows no increase since cleaning ( I have overly large 425 sq ft filter for a 10-12,000 gal pool)

    Water is clear, not cloudy, just those particles. Never have had algae. Not before TFP, not since bleach only a year ago.
    With CH of around 520 I am following the advice here to keep CSI at lower range to prevent scale. CSI with my current numbers is -.37

    Numbers last night around 8:30 PM
    TA 60
    PH 7.2
    FC 11
    CC 0-.5 ( 5 drops R3 makes the solution a little cloudy, barely a tinge of light pink, one drop of R71 brings it back to normal.
    Added a lot of bleach last night to see if I had any overnight loss, measured and got 18 FC

    10:00 AM numbers
    TA 60
    PH 7.2 (seems to read the same as last night in spite of high FC)
    FC 16
    CC 0-.5

    Since sun has been on pool since 5:30 AM I don't think a loss of 2 indicates an issue.
    Tried to take some pictures but it does not show the particles, too small, too transparent.
    Water is clear, not cloudy, just those particles. Never have had algae. Not before TFP, not since bleach only a year ago.
    With CH of around 520 I am following the advice here to keep CSI at lower range to prevent scale. CSI with my current numbers is -.37
    What does calcium look like when if/when it precipitates out? Is that a possible explanation? Previously my TA was 100-120 and PH 7.5

    Do not know if I have a problem or just being overly anal

    Previous post:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...te-under-lites
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Need some ideas! Calcium precipitates? What else explains the particles?
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Your FC went UP 5ppm overnight?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Your FC went UP 5ppm overnight?
    Sorry to confuse, I posted 11 FC, then raised it to 18 and it dropped to 16 like over 12 hours later
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Is the lack of responses because:

    I am not describing my issue adequately?
    I am worrying about nothing?
    No one has a clue on what is causing the large amount of transparent particulate matter?

    I realize this issue is more ambiguous than a green pool, but to me it is an issue nonetheless
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    It isn't clear what you think your issue is, or if there even is an issue. Nothing you said sounds unusual in and of it's self and I don't see enough context to understand why you think this is unusual. Stuff comes off when you brush. That is why you brush. Stuff falls into the pool and looks strange. There is nothing unusual in that. I'm assuming there is something else you aren't saying, but I can't guess what it might be.

    There is no way calcium is going to precipitate with your current levels.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    It isn't clear what you think your issue is, or if there even is an issue. Nothing you said sounds unusual in and of it's self and I don't see enough context to understand why you think this is unusual. Stuff comes off when you brush. That is why you brush. Stuff falls into the pool and looks strange. There is nothing unusual in that. I'm assuming there is something else you aren't saying, but I can't guess what it might be.

    There is no way calcium is going to precipitate with your current levels.
    Thanks, I just thought that with all the brushing and extra run time the particulate matter would be less of an issue. It is an unusually dry year here, with more wind than normal, so maybe that is all it is. One fears what one doesn't know. I will keep brushing and filtering. As long as my numbers are OK I will assume it is not a precursor to and algae bloom. No OLCT,no appreciable CC, no cloudy water....
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    I understand your frustration but this really isn't much different than the thread you referred to. This just seems to ask the same question.

    Previous post:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...te-under-lites

    I know how pumice wears down pretty fast but no idea what it's powder might look like in a pool.

    I'm guessing your lack of response from the forum is most peoples lack of understand what it is you are describing. I fall into that category.

    Some of the issue does sound like normal day to day pool dirt that's just going to happen but if you are seeing an issue then it's up to you to determine if you want to go a step further. I'll assume you've inspected your filter and there are no rips or holes and that it's seated properly.

    Then here are some cut and past suggestions from threads with similar concerns: I have used a product called Sparkle Up (BioGuard) in my cart filter and had good results. It wasn't cheap ($28) but it was worth it for me. One jug of it will treat a 200 sq. ft. filter.
    Or: adding DE or a DE substitute - There are a number of brands of cellulose fiber: Fiber Clear, ZeoFiber, PuriFiber. All of them are essentially the same stuff and work as a DE alternative. For the most part they get very good reviews, though the occasional person finds that their filter won't backwash well when using fiber instead of DE.
    Fiber is definitely easier to handle and more eco than DE. It has been catching on is some areas, not so much in others.
    Or: Have you tried skimmer socks? Only certain brands/models of cart filters allow the addition of DE.

    I'm just shootin' in the dark.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    I have a year old, oversized 425 sq ft cartridge. First year with new VS pump. The old single speed had issues with priming and often ran with air in the system. Which actually may have helped the pop up cleaners. I will check the filter this weekend and maybe let it all settle for 12-24 hours and try and vacuum.

    My previous issue with pumice has largely gone away over the last 3-4 weeks,now it is particulate matter.
    We all strive for perfect pools and while my numbers are good,and the water is not cloudy, I am trying to be perfect,I guess.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    So frustrated. Running the VS 12-14 hours per day, 2600 rpm, 1000 rpm, 1750 rpm. Brushing 4+ times per day. The particles persist.

    FC 9-12
    PH 7.2-7.3
    TA 60-70
    CYA 80
    CH 520

    Why wouldn't my filter be cleaning this up? The dust from the bottom has mostly cleared, maybe the particles are so light they don't move thru the filter? Water is clear otherwise, not cloudy, just particulate matter.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    What have you tried to improve the filtering ??
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

  12. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    What have you tried to improve the filtering ??
    I have a 425 sq FT cartridge filter on a 10-12,000 gallon pool. It is a year old and has been cleaned 4 times, as recently as 4 weeks ago. No increase in filter pressure. What else is there to do?
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
    I have a 425 sq FT cartridge filter on a 10-12,000 gallon pool. It is a year old and has been cleaned 4 times, as recently as 4 weeks ago. No increase in filter pressure. What else is there to do?
    You are complaining about particles in the pool so the 425 sq ft cartridge filter is either damaged, not seated properly or just isn't getting the small stuff, right ?? Just because it's over sized and will hold more material before needing to be cleaned doesn't mean it will filter smaller stuff.

    I did give you a few ideas of things people have tried that cleared up their pools and you haven't tried any of them or said why you think they wouldn't work for you so what is it you want ??
    I have used BioGard Sparkle up and PowerFloc to improve clarity in the past but since transitioning to the TFPC method I use DE in my filter if I see the need.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Have you tried letting the debris settle and vacuuming it out? You could vac to waste if you are afraid it will return.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Yeah I agree you may need to manually vacuum or get a Kreepy to clean the bottom. Not sure how well pop up cleaners work. Sounds like you are relying on the brushing to suspend the particles and hope the filter cleans it up before they settle. If you get what you need to vacuum you should spend less time than you are right now brushing 2 to 4 times a day. You could probably get to where you vacuum 2 to 3 times a week and brush once or twice a week.
    Thanks,
    Gil

    In-ground: 20,600 gallons; Sand Filter 1HP pump; Kreepy Krauler; Solar Breeze Solar Powered Robotic Skimmer; TFT-100 test kit

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Thanks, I will try to vacuum again this weekend. I do not have a vacuum to waste setup, thru skimmer and to filter ony with my plumbing.

    I had not heard of adding DE to a cartridge filter, I will search the forum.
    And I thought there was a lot of negative reaction to clarifiers and/or floc here. I will read about that too.

    But these particles are not tiny, so I guess it may be more that they are so light (almost transparent) and never get to the filter rather than they go right thru the filter.

    I won't post back until I have tried or researched the suggestions (known as suffering in silence)
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    As I posted, not all cartridges can use DE, that one is up to you to find out if yours can.

    There are specific DE substitutes for enhancing cartridge filters available that are supposed to work like DE to improve a cartridges performance. http://www.hottubspasupplies.com/pro...FUYLMgodjCMAvQ

    I get slapped a lot for even suggesting floc but it's worked for me and if you search floc you'll see it's worked for other members but it's not recommended except in certain situations. Has anyone offered another alternative ??
    Clarifier I haven't tried so I'm separating it from floc and the fact you can't vac to waste you would need to forget floc and only have the option of a clairifier. Floc has to vac to waste, you don't want that stuff stuck in your cartridge.
    http://www.lesliespool.com/leslies-u...tra-bright.htm

    "But these particles are not tiny, so I guess it may be more that they are so light (almost transparent) and never get to the filter rather than they go right thru the filter."
    If they aren't tiny unless they can somehow swim away from the skimmer I'm not sure how they aren't getting sucked in the skimmer or floor drain and going to the filter

    Maybe skimmer socks ?? https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...ed=0CHYQ8wIwAg
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Pollen. I bet that's what you are seeing and your filter is probably getting it, but it just keeps blowing through the air and depositing on the surface of your pool. You will never get rid of it. If you do, allergy sufferers around the world will flock to you in shear amazement and bow down to you.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    Pollen. I bet that's what you are seeing and your filter is probably getting it, but it just keeps blowing through the air and depositing on the surface of your pool. You will never get rid of it. If you do, allergy sufferers around the world will flock to you in shear amazement and bow down to you.
    I am going to try and remove some with my net and take a picture. It is more of a mental bother than anything. Water chemistry is good, no algae, water looks clear overall. I just know it is there!
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Should I be concerned?

    1. Opened cartridge filter to inspect. Everything is in order, all four cartridges fitted properly, no leaks. Filtering is working, collecting sand and small particles. Many were like the ones in the pictures below. Filter by no means needed cleaning, done about 3 weeks ago, but I gave it a quick rinse anyway.

    2. Finally had the opportunity to get some pics. The brown flecks are probably leaf fragments. It is the white/almost transparent ones that are the issue. I think because they are so light they are filtering but slowly. Not sure if insect wings or some kind of plant matter or inorganic.

    Clicking on the picture will enlarge it










    From what I have read floc can be a bad idea, and clarifier is to allow small particles to be caught and filtered. My seem to be caught by filter, once they get to it!
    Going to run pump 24/7 this weekend, reduced electric rates on weekends.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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