A few new in-ground pool questions from a total greenhorn.

[SBK]

First, this is such a great forum. I've been lurking here for about a week and have learned alot. Thx to everyone. Second, I have read a boatload of post on here and not one of them was a sarcastic answer. Nice to find a mature forum. Third, I hope this post is in the right area ?
Anyway, we just signed the contract for a new IG to be installed the first week of August. I figure that if I want to make changes or additions to our new pool, I need to do it now. The PB wants to use 1.5" PVC for the plumbing. I have searched these forums and really can't find a definitive answer. I am leaning for them to use 2" PVC. Less restriction and better flow is my reasoning. Am I wrong ? Is 1.5" PVC sufficient ? I know that the PB is out to save some cash as well by there is not a whole lot of difference (price wise) between the 1.5" and 2" PVC. (I'm not sure about the amount of gallons)
Also, I have read and heard that the "only way to go" is a 2 speed pump. The PB says that they don't recommend them cause they are fairly new. I figure that if I can get the same performance from a 2 speed 1.5 hp that I would from a single speed 1.5 hp, than why not. The price difference is minimal (from what I have seen) for an upgrade but it will save me a chunk of dough on my electric bills. FWIW, I am having them plumb an extra line (?) for a future water slide upgrade.
One last thing, I am leaning to get a SWG installed. They seem to be the less maintenance and the easiest to maintain from what I have read. Will a 2 spd pump damage the SWG ? Is it better to stay with what the PB suggest ? The PB is pushing for the AquaRite but I like the Zodiac, not only for the initial cost, but for the ease of changing of the cells; or so I have read.
I am a newb when it comes to these pool "thingies" as I am doing it for the kids and a wife who is now become disabled. I want to make this thing as easy (maintenance wise for me) and enjoyable for them but I want to do it right and not have to re-do some things in 2 yrs that I can do now.
Thx everyone !

IG Vinyl true "EL" Pool : 18x37x26 3' @ the "el" and 6.5' @ the deep end; 2 skimmers, 3 returns, dual mains; 1.5 hp Hayward Super; 48' DE; Automatic Chloronator; Hayward LED light

 

[JasonLion]

2" plumbing is nearly always better and the extra expense is minimal. Of course, 1.5" will work. 2" is just better. If you have separate runs from the pad to several returns and several skimmers it doesn't make that much difference, but if all the water is going through one pipe most of the way it makes a noticeable difference.

Variable speed pumps are sort of new. Two speed pumps have been around for a long time. Get the two speed, it can save you a huge amount of electricity.

Having a two speed pump is fine with a SWG.

I would think about getting a larger filter. Larger filters need less frequent backwashing and are just slightly more efficient.

 

[SBK]

Jason, thx for the reply. Just curious, but is the 1.5hp pump that the PB is recommending (regardless of speeds) going to be large enough or better yet, is it to small for my size of pool. I don't know the gallon size yet so you may not know this answer. I would think that it would be better to be over sized than undersized when it comes to the pumps.
Thank-you again !

 

[DaveNJ]

I run a 2pd pump and it works great. I have it come on in high for 1hr to fill the spa and move floating stuff to skimmers. Then switched to low for 8hrs and back to high for 1hr. My pump is a 2hp max. rated or 1.5hp full rated. I have the valves adjusted to move enough water through the SWCG as to not get a Low Flow warning when the pump switches to low speed. My pool is not as big as yours but I move allot of water. 4 returns, 2 swim out jets, 2 step jets, spill over spa, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains. Everything flows pretty good on low speed. Added benefit, its really quiet when running.

 

[SBK]

Dave,
Do you use a controller for your pump ? Are these controllers standard on a 2 sp or variable pump ? If no contgroller, how do you regulate your "times" for the high and low speeds ?
Any major/specific reason(s) you have a Northstar over the Tristar ?
Thanks.

 

[PoolOwnerNumber9]

Many times a builder will tie in lines underground at the closest point and then run one line to the pump and filter. I think that it would be best to run a separate 2 inch line from each skimmer and return all the way to the pump and filter. The main drains need to be connected together for safety. This will mean 6 lines vs. 3 at the pump and filter. I think that it will give you better performance and a few other benefits.

 

[JasonLion]

I didn't see any water features, so a 1.5 HP up rated pump is probably fine. If it was full rated it would be too large. (HP ratings can get misleading because they mean different things depending on who is talking.) If you are getting a two speed pump this is not an issue, as low speed will be fine either way.

As a general rule a larger filter is better and a smaller pump is better. If you have to get a single speed pump I would go down to the 1 HP. But the 1.5 HP will be fine as a two speed. But if you switch to a different line of pumps check to see if they are full rates, max rated, or up rated.

 

[meatloaf]

I've often heard that the return lines should be in a loop to equalize return line pressure at each return eyeball, this could be something to consider having the PB do during installation. I'm sure other, more knowledgeable people will confirm or deny this.

 

[DaveNJ]

My Autopilot SWCG controls my pump. No reason for the Northstar. When the pool was being built I wanted 2 skimmers and larger pipe, at least 2", 2spd pump. The PB gave me a system they put on large pools. I believe Intermatic makes timers for 2spd pumps. Or just a standard timer and a switch to manually switch speeds when needed.

 

[MEvan]

If your contractor is running designated lines to all skimmers and returns in 1.5 inch that is ok as long as he brings them togethor into a 2 inch manifold for suction and return side. If they are being looped I dont like it. Is he running hard PVC or tigerflex? As far as the main drains go I would not dare run them in 1.5 inch as a builder due to the new anti entrapment codes. You should not exceed 6 ft/sec. flow on suction side and this is almost impossible to avoid using 1.5. I would insist theat the MDs be run 2 inch. Many contractors will try to neck down between MDs when they tie them togethor underground. This is unacceptable. They must be tied in the same sized piping as the trunk line. I hope this helps. You will be good with a 1.5 HP (2 speed is nice) brand name pump. I did almost that exact same pool with a 1.5 HP wisperflow. (Pentair). A hayward super pump would be my second choice. A low speed pump will not damage a salt cell but you will probobly have issues with turnover rate and heat circulation running on low speed 24 hours. You will have to manually turn it up for portions of the day, get a high low timer, or get an automation system. I like the aquarite cells but have never worked with the other one you mentioned. Salt generation is very nice, I dont think you will regret it. Just be sure your concrete contractor uses a high quality sealant to protect from salt damage. Ask for pricing on having a high traction addition put in because sealed concrete can get slippery when wet.

I hope this helps,
Matthew

 

[SBK]

Thx to all that replied with the comments and great suggestions!
I have contacted the PB about upgrading the pump, filter and PVC. PB tole me that they would install the 2" PVC. That being said, they got back with me on the pricing for the upgrades. I need some opinions if they think these prices are in-line with the market or am I just getting "took".
To upgrade from a Hayward Pro-Grid 48 to a Pro-Grid 60 via the PB is $170. A couple of web sites that I have looked into are approximately $48-$60 difference. The pump is even worse. To go from a 1.5hp single speed SuperPump to a 1.5hp 2 speed Hayward (not sure of the model) is $295. Now, don't get me wrong here; I'm all for peeps making a good living, but I feel that $465 is a little too excessive for these 2 upgrades especially when I am dropping 30k for the pool. I don't expect them to do it for free but I also don't want to put their first born thru Med school.
Am I wrong here or being too pickey ? You guys know a heck of alot more about this stuff than I do and all I am asking for is to be treated fairly.
They are scheduled to break ground the second week of August and am in the Cincinnati area.
Thx in advance (TIA)




IG Vinyl true "EL" Pool : 18x37x26 3' @ the "el" and 6.5' @ the deep end; 2 skimmers, 3 returns, dual mains; 1.5 hp Hayward Super; 48' DE; Automatic Chloronator; Hayward LED light

 

[PoolOwnerNumber9]

SBK, the price changes may be a little high; but you also have to consider the builder’s time and effort redesigning the pump and filter plans. These things have to be carefully considered and engineered. Inventory has to be ordered and electrical plans have to be reconsidered. Design changes can add a couple of extra man-hours to the project. Of course, you can always negotiate for a better deal on anything if you think that the price is too high. Also, are they charging you extra to go with the 2 inch piping?

 

[SBK]

#9:

PB tole me they would install the 2" that they are only using the 1.5" becuase it is "cleaner" than the 2" when it get's up to the pump and filter. I am assumming that she means easier to work with and have more space in between valves etc.
I appreciate your comments on my last post. There is no redesigning on the pool size, hole, patio or anything; just the pump and filter upgrades. They have not even broje ground yet and I am still about 2 weeks out so I do no know how they could factor that into the price.
Inventory is most likely the answer but I am sure that they order a few pumps and filters at the same time so I can't see it being a warehouse or shipping fee. I want them to make money and do a great job for me so at this point I either can say go ahead with the original plans or do the upgrade. I am sure that they won't budge on the price. They won't have to as I have already signed on the 23rd of July for the pool install.
Most likely, I'll go ahead and pay the difference in the pmp and filter, but I just fon't feel like I'm getting a fair deal.
oh well.
thx again for the reply ! :-D

 

[DaveNJ]

This is 2.5", doesn't look that bad.