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Thread: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

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    So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    So, total NOOB to the SWG. PB just started it up today. Dumped in 4 bags of salt around 2 and by 8:00 tonight the salt level is up to 3,200 ppm. I can definitely taste it a bit, but doesn't seem objectionable.

    So did a full test now that I am off bleach / pucks. Was running through two trichlor pucks to add CYA. Here are the numbers from tonight:

    FC: 6.44
    TCL: 6.44
    CC: 0
    pH: 7.9
    TA: 100
    CH: 268
    CYA: 49.

    The pool is Wet Edge pebble, and just now 31 days old. So still curing. I have been had a slowly rising pH (goes from 7.5 to 8 in about 3 days) was suggested that is from the plaster still curing. So:

    Should I bring my CYA up to about 70-80? Given that I am in Houston, we get some serious sun. Pool calc seems like CSI is a little high. Looks like my pH is to blame. Will add some acid in the morning.

    So, math aside, how does this thing work (settings wise)? It's a Hayward TCell 15. It's set at 75%. What exactly does that mean? It was set at 75% when I left the PB, and when I came back around 6, it was "off, goal reached". What exactly does that mean?

    How does one "dial in" this thing? I have a VS pump and I have 4 settings (90, 70, 50, 30). I have it run from 7:30 to 10:00 on 70 (when the cleaner runs too), go down to 30 from 10:00 to 2:00 and go back to 50% from 2 to 6. The pool is sparkling clean.

    Help please!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Edit, just found and read the SWG / Pool school. Looks like I need to lower pH, and drop TA a bit. Bring up my CYA too.
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Sounds like you are on the right track!
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Just because you now have a SWG in service, don't forget that the SWG is meant to produce and provide a steady low level presence of free chlorine in a clean pool without any problems. But if you have something icky develop (say a kid poops in the pool or something) and you want to increase your chlorine level immediately to deal with it- go ahead and use plain old liquid bleach. It will give you the immediate rise you need whereas the SWG doesn't do that. Same if you ever develop an algae problem, you'll want to use liquid chlorine as the SWG won't be able to slay that green beast faster than the green beast will multiply.

    ENJOY your new pool and the ease of having that SWG. You'll get the hang of how to dial it in for best results in the coming weeks. If the water looks and test great, you can try backing its % down or lowering the run time. Then retest. As long as your tests and water continue to be good you can back it down some more (baby steps). The minute your water loses its sparkly shine you'll know you need a skosh more in run time or %. And it isn't stagnant throughout the year for most of us. The hotter and sunnier it is, the more time/% you might need. But your nifty TF-100 will help you keep on top of it with ease.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Thanks you two.

    So can anyone tell me exactly what the % means? % of run time? Sorry, I am a technical geek (aka engineer) and if I don't understand what that means and how to control it, it will bother me!
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    The percentage setting controls how much chlorine the SWG produces. It is a percentage of the total amount it could produce given the time the pump is running. You can also increase chlorine production by running the pump longer, though that is hardly ever needed.

    The best way to adjust the % is to test the water in the early evening after a sunny day. If the FC level is below the minimum for your CYA level turn up the percentage, if the FC level is too high turn down the percentage. Once you get the setting dialed in it will only need to be adjusted once ever week or two as the weather changes.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    So, was really hot today...touched 100. No real pool time as we were busy. This morning I added 6 oz of Muriatic as that's what the pool calc was calling for. Also added about a quart of liquid CYA.

    The results today were a little surprising:

    FC: 7.44
    TC: 7.44
    CC: 0

    Not that surprising given the generator was set at 75% but..

    pH = 8.0
    CYA = 49.

    Huh? The CYA was liquid, which I thought dissolved quickly....? And what's with the pH not dropping...but raising?

    Dialed back the SWG to 60%, will see what happens there. Guess I'll add more acid and wait a bit to see if the CYA comes up before adding more conditioner.
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    A generating SWG will raise the pH ... how fast depends on your TA.
    What is the strength of the acid you have?
    What test kit are you using?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Using the LaMotte Color Q Pro 7.

    Acid is standard strength...think it's 31%? And it's fresh.

    my TA is 100.


    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
    Hayward - TCell 15 SWG; TriStar VS Main Pump; SwimClear 425 Cartridge Filter; ProLogic 4 Automation, SuperII Water Feature Pump; Polaris 280 w/ Booster
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Well, one of the weaknesses of the Color Q, and one reason we do not recommend it, is the CYA testing. For that matter, there is no way to know if it is ever giving you bogus numbers or not.
    As you just stated, the change in CYA is just not expected or possible ... so how do you trust any of the numbers? Maybe you did add the appropriate amount of acid and either the previous or current pH result was wrong.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    What Ph level were you aiming for when you added the MA?

    you have those 3 waterfalls and that aerates the water. Aeration to that extent will raise the PH pretty quick too.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    you have those 3 waterfalls and that aerates the water. Aeration to that extent will raise the PH pretty quick too.
    Interesting, didn't know that. But to be honest, they were on maybe 30 minutes today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Well, one of the weaknesses of the Color Q, and one reason we do not recommend it, is the CYA testing. For that matter, there is no way to know if it is ever giving you bogus numbers or not.
    As you just stated, the change in CYA is just not expected or possible ... so how do you trust any of the numbers? Maybe you did add the appropriate amount of acid and either the previous or current pH result was wrong.
    Well, understood about the CYA. But my pH is not incorrect. I have double checked with a small Taylor kit and it's always been spot on for pH.

    Why would I not trust any of the numbers? I can see CYA....the dissolving tablet method does not strike me as all that great. But the other numbers? What do you mean, "there's no way to know"?
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Yeah,
    thats what happens when you get lots of bubbles in the water..ph rises. how quicly obvously depends on the lenth of time the water is aerated. 30 mins usually doesnt do much, but that also depends on the pool volume, and yours is relatively small.

    The aeration are also why the SWG will raise Ph. THere is aerating going on in the SWG when the water passes through the miltiple plates inside the cell. Thats is happening 100 percent of the time the pump is running.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Yeah,
    thats what happens when you get lots of bubbles in the water..ph rises. The bubbles are also why the SWG will raise Ph. THere is some aerating going on in the SWG when the water passes over the plates. Thats is happening 100 percent of the time the pump is running.
    Hmm, is that why I'm all of a sudden seeing air in my return jets when my pump is on low speed? It's been driving me crazy and started as soon as we turned on the SWG on Friday. I've been bleeding everything like crazy. Doesn't happen at higher pump speeds (50% and up).
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    hummmm.... I dont know if I would go so far as to say that. Bubbles out of the return are not typically a biproduct of having a swg.
    Have you always had the bubbles at low speed or is it something recently happening?
    I would actually thing higher pump speed creates a higher flow rate and in turn would create more turbulance in the SGW than a slower speed would.

    by chance are there any bubbles in the pump basket at low speed? That would indicate a suction side leak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
    Hmm, is that why I'm all of a sudden seeing air in my return jets when my pump is on low speed? It's been driving me crazy and started as soon as we turned on the SWG on Friday. I've been bleeding everything like crazy. Doesn't happen at higher pump speeds (50% and up).
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Just started on Friday. Have not noticed it before.

    No, nothing in the pump basket.
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    As with any digital tester ... how do you know the results are correct? How are you verifying that the numbers it spits out are the correct numbers?
    They all need to be stored properly and should be calibrated regularly. Search the forum and you will find many former owners of the Color Q who thought it was great for a month or so and then threw them out because it would sometimes just spit out the wrong numbers.

    I know when I count the same number of drops that the result is the same every time ... there is no wondering if the sensor is dirty or if the computer has stopped working correctly. You never had a piece of electronics suddenly go bad?
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    So I guess you are bleeding the filter through the valve on top of it, right? Do you get any air coming out when you open it? If so, then somewhere, some air is getting sucked in there.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    BTW, I ALWAYS have bubbles when my SWG is running. The size of the bubbles changes with speed. On high, they are smaller and less noticeable. On low, they tend to be larger since they must collect in the pipe.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    As far as testing goes, let this former engineer who worked in a wet chemistry lab share his experience - electronic testers like the ColorQ are nice gizmos to have but, like anything electronic, they are only as good as their calibration. Basic solution titration (counting drops and looking for color changes), while totally un-glamorous, always work.

    For example, when we would need to test the pH of a particular chemical bath, the vendor recommended method was to always do a formal acid-base titration like the kind you did in HS chem class. If that was not possible and if you used an electronic pH probe, then the only acceptable method was to make sure you had a pH standard solution in the range of pH you needed and first verify and calibrate the probe prior to testing the chemical bath. Even then, some chemical baths could not be measured directly by electronic probes because of the complexity of the bath chemistry. In those cases, titration was the only way to go.

    So you can use a ColorQ, but most folks on these forums aren't going to trust the results you post simply because too many have had problems with the ColorQ's being way off from a K-2006 of TF-100.



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    Re: So....just started the SWG. How does this thing work?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunnyOptimism View Post
    As far as testing goes, let this former engineer who worked in a wet chemistry lab share his experience - electronic testers like the ColorQ are nice gizmos to have but, like anything electronic, they are only as good as their calibration. Basic solution titration (counting drops and looking for color changes), while totally un-glamorous, always work.

    For example, when we would need to test the pH of a particular chemical bath, the vendor recommended method was to always do a formal acid-base titration like the kind you did in HS chem class. If that was not possible and if you used an electronic pH probe, then the only acceptable method was to make sure you had a pH standard solution in the range of pH you needed and first verify and calibrate the probe prior to testing the chemical bath. Even then, some chemical baths could not be measured directly by electronic probes because of the complexity of the bath chemistry. In those cases, titration was the only way to go.

    So you can use a ColorQ, but most folks on these forums aren't going to trust the results you post simply because too many have had problems with the ColorQ's being way off from a K-2006 of TF-100.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My problem with color change is I find it very hard to detect. Always have, back to chemistry lab. I tend to trust a machine, however imperfect, over my imperfect optical analysis. I hear you both about the ColorQ, noted.

    Now, does liquid CYA take a while to disperse, or should it be immediate?

    Thanks!
    8,000 gallon in-ground gunnite geometric. Wet Edge Satin Matrix. Triple overflow water feature.
    Hayward - TCell 15 SWG; TriStar VS Main Pump; SwimClear 425 Cartridge Filter; ProLogic 4 Automation, SuperII Water Feature Pump; Polaris 280 w/ Booster
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