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Thread: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

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    Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    Someone ran me off the road.
    Thanks,
    Gil

    In-ground: 20,600 gallons; Sand Filter 1HP pump; Kreepy Krauler; Solar Breeze Solar Powered Robotic Skimmer; TFT-100 test kit

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    Re: CYA debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    Not understanding this better myself has been frustrating me. The Chlorine/CYA chart tells me how much FC I need based on my CYA but I've found nothing that says whether it's better for me to have 30 CYA versus 50 CYA. Based on responses here it doesn't seem like anyone really knows. If I say I'm burning a lot of FC the advise will be to raise the CYA as long as I don't go over 50. It just seems crazy to bump up CYA by 10 just to render another 1ppm FC useless and need to keep the pool 1ppm higher with no real reason of why the extra 10 CYA is better.
    My understanding that the extra CYA isn't making the extra FC "useless". It is making it last longer and therefor less overall bleach gets used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    So on one hand I'm proud that I know how to test my pool and keep it sparkling clear and I feel like I could now come over to anyone's pool and fix it but part of me misses when I didn't even know what my FC and CYA numbers were and just wrote a $60 check every month and swam in clear water. I think I probably have more sparkling water now but it's costing me more money and time.
    $60 per month is darn cheap. Here, the locals want $90(ish) a week!!! So, it's all relative to your situation.
    19.5k gal, 16x32 vinyl liner, sand filter, 1hp single speed pump, K-2006 test kit.

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    Re: CYA debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    I've found nothing that says whether it's better for me to have 30 CYA versus 50 CYA. Based on responses here it doesn't seem like anyone really knows.
    The main tradeoff is that higher CYA levels use less total chlorine, while lower CYA levels (to a point) make it easier to fight algae, should you get algae. The exact balance point that is "ideal" varies a little depending on how much sunlight your pool gets, and there really isn't much point in pining it down exactly because no one can measure their sunlight level or their CYA level precisely enough for specific numbers to really mean anything. There are also quite a number of secondary issues, such as questions of what levels are easiest to measure with the available test kits, etc. It is all well understood, but not so useful to explain beyond the quick summary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    The problem is everyone assumes you showed up here and had a green pool because your CYA was high and you were spending $400 a pop at the pool store. That wasn't me. I was paying $60 a month to a pool guy using powders and pucks and my water always looked clear. I thought I could do it cheaper and that's why I decided to do it myself...not because my pool was in bad shape. Well my pool turned green when summer hit but it wasn't because the CYA was over 100. It was because I flat out just didn't have enough chlorine in the pool. I used the methods here to fix it but it's costing me over $100 a month now and I'm staring at my next door neighbor's pool who is still using the same pool guy for $60 a month and they have sparkling clear water. Those folks don't even touch the darn pool during the week. I bet their CYA is over 100 cause I've never seen them drain water in 3 years. When I started here everyone said my CYA was too high so I drained and refilled half my pool. You know what it only raised my water bill about $50. I think it would be cheaper for me to drain water periodically than the extra cost I'm spending in bleach and acid. My pool is also rising about 0.2 a day in pH so buying acid is burning a hole in my pocket.

    So on one hand I'm proud that I know how to test my pool and keep it sparkling clear and I feel like I could now come over to anyone's pool and fix it but part of me misses when I didn't even know what my FC and CYA numbers were and just wrote a $60 check every month and swam in clear water. I think I probably have more sparkling water now but it's costing me more money and time.
    The method we teach isn't for everyone. If checking the pool daily bothers you, perhaps you will be better off with a pool service. On the other hand, both the amount of effort and the total cost go way down once you get used to the routine. The great majority here following our suggestions spend way less than $60/week. This year I am spending about $20/week and that is only because I stocked up on several years worth of boric acid and CYA at the start of the season.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA debate

    Chemical service is only about $40/mo here, but I was never happy with the water quality. It is much better now that I have taken control even if it cost slightly more to maintain with bleach. I now have a SWG so that lowers the work load some.

    At a higher CYA, you need to maintain a high FC level to have the pool safe. That is true, but you should lose less ppm each day to the sun so it should lower your costs.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: CYA debate

    Checking the pool everyday doesn't bother me as much as the higher cost. I'm wondering if maybe I would have costs like you quote if I was in MD. Is anyone here from Arizona with a 20,000 gallon+ pool really spending way less than $60/month?

    Edit: Jason: Looking back at your post did you really mean $20/week or per month?
    Thanks,
    Gil

    In-ground: 20,600 gallons; Sand Filter 1HP pump; Kreepy Krauler; Solar Breeze Solar Powered Robotic Skimmer; TFT-100 test kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: CYA debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    Edit: Jason: Looking back at your post did you really mean $20/week or per month?
    It looks like I did misread your post and mix up weeks and months. I did mean weeks, and thought you also said weeks. So our costs aren't all that different from each other. A pool service for $60/month is an amazing deal. They charge $80/week around here.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    Checking the pool everyday doesn't bother me as much as the higher cost. I'm wondering if maybe I would have costs like you quote if I was in MD. Is anyone here from Arizona with a 20,000 gallon+ pool really spending way less than $60/month?

    Edit: Jason: Looking back at your post did you really mean $20/week or per month?
    There are at least 2 service companies in Tucson that charge under $50/month for chemical service. One comes weekly and the other every other week. For slightly more money I prefer the much better water quality and more stable chemistry by doing it myself.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: CYA debate

    The TFP method has saved me lots of money and my water looks so much better vs my pool guy. I was paying $135 per month and as the CYA levels started getting out of hand, so did the algae and the green water. I was getting sick and tired of having to call him and listening to his excuses and outright lies. When I first started with him, he told me eventually the water would get "old" and I'd have to drain. I wish I'd fired him earlier when my CYA was lower.

    If your pool guy can pull it off for only $60, that sounds pretty good to me. Somehow I suspect he'll be needing to exchange water at some point.

    I'm also a scientist. The number of significant digits on the ColorQ is simply laughable and raises red flags for me.
    20,000 gal in-ground plaster pool with sand filter. Replastered recently. Mostly adding bleach and acid. CYA was high when I took over.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: CYA debate

    One thing to consider when refilling your pool is to notify the local water authority (city or whatever it may be) that you are filling your pool and the water will not be going into the sewer system as part of its use. Give them a good estimate of the volume you'll be using for that purpose. They may be willing to remove the surcharge (typically per 1000 gallons) for sewage use, saving significant money.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: CYA debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SwimAustin View Post

    I'm also a scientist. The number of significant digits on the ColorQ is simply laughable and raises red flags for me.
    Yes, as an engineer I thought the same thing!
    25000 Gallon gunite and plaster, 100 perimeter feet. Pool built 1996, original owner.
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    Re: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    I'll give you my real world experience. I'm new to this TFP method.

    I spent ~$70 on a test kit. $15 for stabilizer. And so far i've spent about $50 in bleach. And i have 16 gallons left. I go through about 2-3 gallons a week. I was only at roughly a 25-30 CYA level as well.
    I had only put in 3lbs of CYA. I just added the other 1lb last night and hopefully my bleach usage will go down a little. I'm in full sun from about 7-8am till 6-7pm, maybe longer.

    I'm one of the ones that might have to shoot for a CYA of 50. But so far i'm spending about $10 a week in bleach. That is nothing compared to the pool store schedule they wanted me to follow.....2 pucks a week, half bottle algecide every 2 weeks, bag of shock every 2 weeks, bottle of clairifier every month.

    I'd be upwards of $150+ a month their way. This way once I get my CYA where I want it, i'll be in the $35-40ish a month range.
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    Re: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrock View Post
    Someone ran me off the road.
    Your post had plenty of merit. Don't know why you changed it even if it was moved??? Honestly, if some PB did my pool for $60 per month and I was happy, I'd probably not be on this forum.

    19.5k gal, 16x32 vinyl liner, sand filter, 1hp single speed pump, K-2006 test kit.

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    Re: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    Well that was just my reaction when I saw a thread show up in New Posts created by me that I didn't create. It didn't have any indication that it had been generated by someone else and I didn't get a note about it till after I removed my text. It didn't have the title I would have picked had I created my own thread and I thought it made it out of context to what I was reacting to so my knee jerk reaction was just to remove the text and not participate. I didn't try to hijack any thread and if that's how it seemed then I didn't do a good job making my point. Plus I tried to post a picture of my pool a few weeks ago and that thread got hijacked and became about pics of someone else's pool and I didn't see anything done so I was a little sensitive about it.
    Thanks,
    Gil

    In-ground: 20,600 gallons; Sand Filter 1HP pump; Kreepy Krauler; Solar Breeze Solar Powered Robotic Skimmer; TFT-100 test kit

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    You and everyone always have the ability to report a post you have a problem with. You could have pointed out that your other thread got detailed and we could have cleaned it up. Hard to police everything in the busy season.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Not understanding CYA better myself has been frustrating

    Blame me for helping the other thread getting derailed. Sorry.

    As for your experience F.W.I.W., you should consider yourself lucky. You now have the best of both worlds. You can economicly have someone help you and you now know if they're doing a good job.

    I think I wanna move to AZ

    Enjoy
    19.5k gal, 16x32 vinyl liner, sand filter, 1hp single speed pump, K-2006 test kit.

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