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Thread: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

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    Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Well, I've had a cloudy yo-yoing pool since I opened it this year. Meaning, it wants to clear up, and struggles to get there, then when I go to vacuum or brush, or agitate anything in the pool, it murks up and becomes cloudy (not nearly as transparent). So I decided I was a prime candidate for a deep clean, perhaps I got some nasty channeling in my sand. I've never touched the filter in the 5+ years I've lived here.

    Anyhow, the multiport was conveniently plumbed with unions, so the pipes all came apart easily. Then, I removed the hose clamp securing the multiport to the filter. The multiport then popped right off with no effort, however, the 'holy cone' (that is the cone with holes) stayed in the filter on the standpipe. Looking at the picture in Smykowski's stickied Deep Clean post, you notice said 'holy cone' conveniently still attached to the multiport, appears to even be secured with a screw. However my multiport is now in two pieces, and I cannot remove said 'holy cone' from the filter standpipe.



    HA! My photo theft worked, in the above picture, the cone from the blue o-ring down to the pipe which goes around the standpipe is still tightly adhered to the standpipe. This is preventing me from doing any form of deep cleaning.

    I tried going all around the pipe with a small screwdriver to free the two, however they seemed married. Small white flakes keep flaking off as I flex the pipe, they appear to be chlorine perhaps? (I ran 3" tabs for years) As I got a good whiff of chlorine as I toiled. Still I couldn't pull or twist the holy cone without the pipe wanting to move. Am I not being violent enough? Or should they separate easily? I fear they've fused together, and I'll need a new standpipe (lateral assembly for my filter it appears) to get the cone out. The top 1/3" of the pipe started to crack away in chunks as I tried to separate the two.

    I'd really like to try to reuse the valve, as I just put a new key/cover on it, and the body itself really isn't very old (one to two years), which makes me wonder why are they so tightly fused? I now recall I replaced the whole multiport as the body was leaking at a crack near the pressure gauge.

    Anyrate, I wonder the 'holy cone' being disconnected from my multiport is affecting my filtering too.

    Suggestions on how to proceed? Get a new standpipe/lateral and smash up the old one to free the holy cone from my filter? I wish I had snapped a pic when I had it off, but I hastily reassembled in case all was lost. However, I suppose even if I jack it all up, I can run the valve on recirculate and the standpipe/cone could be completely missing and it wouldn't affect operation, correct? I'd just lose any (seemingly worthless) filtering that is going on.

    I'll have this pool clean yet, whether it likes it or not.


    Forgive my post, I've tried to proof-read it somewhat, but my fingers betray my mind at times, and my post reads like it were written by an ape. I assure you, I'm not an ape, I'm a mostly capable auto mechanic/husband/father/humble man of God (order not significant). Mostly.
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

  2. Back To Top    #2
    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    New stand pipe with laterals is about $75 and valve is $90.
    http://www.poolzoom.com/hayward-pro-...44t-parts.html

    http://www.poolzoom.com/hayward-sp07...ers-clamp.html

    You may be able to fine them cheaper if you look around. Sorry for your loss.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    You've already condemned the valve. I'll attempt to reuse it I think, but I do fear the pipe/laterals will need to be destroyed. And Amazon is the online Walmart, soon I feel Amazon will consume all other lil businesses. Both the pipe and the valve are available for about 20 bucks less and shipped in 2 days. I think I'll order the pipe this evening.

    Bah, forgive me about my Amazon praise. The SX220DA lateral assembly is the ONE they don't have with Prime shipping. Other similar versions are available for cheap. Looks like still $70+ from Amazon. The valve is 76 bucks shipped.


    Here's a question for any Hayward filter pros, the lateral I was drooling over on Amazon is the
    SX244DA, which PoolZone says is meant for a S244T filter. I have an S220T filter, and PoolZone suggests a SX220DA lateral, which is a bit more expensive. Amazon lists the SX244DA fits a S220T filter, is this blasphemy? What's the deal?

    http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SX244D.../dp/B004VTGJTW
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Shop vacuum is the way to empty the sand.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    So I attacked the filter again this morning, determined to get the diffuser off the standpipe. (Yes, I changed my terminology from 'holy cone' to diffuser. Saw somebody else use it in a post, seemed more appropriate. Anyhow, it wouldn't budge, started to bend my feeble knife I was trying to insert between the two. Finally, I gave up, and saw somebody else's suggestion to slowly lift the hole works out, and the laterals will wiggle their way through the wet sand. I was skeptical, but I slowly and gently lifted the assemble. And lo and behold, it came right out...



    Standpipe broke in two, with very little effort I might add. I suspect the pipe was cracked already, as I've had grit in my pool for a while. I suspected a leaking filter, but it was large white grit. To me, sand is tan fine stuff you find on the eastern shores. But with the diffuser out of the way, I saw the filter sand, and it's definitely what I've been cleaning out of my Aquabot.



    With the standpipe ruined, I was able to cut a slit into it, and 'roll' it out of the diffuser piece. Then I found the offending glue which mated then two, it was packed full of sand between the diffuser and standpipe, preventing the two from pulling apart. I was able to reassemble my valve and replace the missing screw to secure them.



    Here's a pic of the inside of the filter. The level of sand is quite low! The pipe broke 15" below the top of the filter. The Hayward owner's manual states:
    "d. Carefully pour in correct amount and grade of filter
    sand, as specified on Table 1. (Be sure center pipe
    remains centered in opening). Sand surface should be
    leveled and should come to within 6" of the top of the
    filter tank. Remove sand shield from internal pipe."

    So I was roughly 10" low on sand? It is supposed to have 250lbs of sand in it. I'm a little unsure of where the level should be. 6" from the very top of the filter? The pipe was about 2" below the top, so sand within 4" of the top? It would nearly touch the bottom of the diffuser at that height, sound correct?

    Lastly a pic of my setup:



    The sand is up to about the bottom 1/4 of the black Hayward label on the side. Pictured is my lovely new pump motor and timer, which are working wonderfully this year, now if I can get the filter straightened out I may have a Trouble Free Pool.

    Thoughts on how much sand I need to buy to fill up the filter? And shall I do the deep clean on the sand prior to shop vacing it out, so that I'll draw out mostly cleaned sand to put back in with a new lateral/standpipe assembly.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SX244D...ywords=sx244da

    Is what I have my eye on for a new pipe. Although it is specifically for a S244T filter, I suspect the only difference is a taller pipe, which I'll just trim to match the height of my old pipe. The owners manual for my S220T is the same as for the S180T, S210T, and S244T. While they all call for different pipe assemblies, they all use the same laterals. So I suspect the only difference is the height of the pipe, which can easily be trimmed. It's $20 cheaper than the S220T pipe, and ships via Amazon Prime.
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

  6. Back To Top    #6
    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Glad you're able to save the valve, good deal to save you some money. I'd vac out the sand, weight it and replace it, add new sand to get it to the proper quantity.
    Nice setup. Also you might want to order a new seal at the same time.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Evening update:

    I attempted a deep clean on the filter sand. Gosh did a lot of **** come out of there. And quite a bit of foam too?!? Not 100% sure it wasn't from something in the garden hoses, should've cleared them before dumping them in the filter. But it was that weird ocean scummy foam that forms in some tide pools. Anyhow, a LOT of garbage came out of there, there was still some junk that settled on the top once I was done, I cleared most of that out.

    Tomorrow I'll shop vac the sand into a trash can for safe holding until the pipe/lateral assembly (+ o ring) I ordered arrives (due in on Thursday).

    Also I'll try to grab 150lbs of sand either tomorrow or Thursday. Leaving for the weekend, would like to get the filter running before I leave to hopefully return to a very clear pool on Thursday. Got some recirc time out of the pump today to mix the bleach around. PH is on the rise, which is unusual to me, as I've only switched to bleach this year, and prior I've always had to add soda ash to help the PH climb. Now it does it on it's own. Guess I'll be on the lookout for some acid. Should be able to find sand and acid at Lowes right?

    P.S. Gave the filter a bit of elbow grease with a brillo pad on the shell. Purely aesthetically. When the valve housing cracked, it leaked for a while, caused the hose clamp to rust, and stained the side of the filter. You notice it in the pic, I got 85% of it off, looks much better.
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

  8. Back To Top    #8
    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Sounds great! People love pictures.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?



    So I shop vac'ed down to the lateral, which is a pain in the backside. As a mechanic I'm bent over a car engine all day, last thing I want to do is come home and bend over a filter, then lift all that heavy sand. But anyhow, the shop vac'ing was a slow tedious process, as the hose kept getting clogged, probably from me trying to rush the process, and the sand was still a little wet, especially at the bottom.



    One lateral wasn't completely threaded in. I doubt it was enough to let sand through, but I'm not sure.

    I broke briefly for dinner, luckily I headed back out just in time for the timer to switch on the pump.



    I was about to get hosed with a LOT of water, fortunately it churned with air briefly, and gave me fair notice to switch the breaker off.



    Here's where it gets interesting, and I'm stumped. While the sand was a bit wet (only toward the bottom really), I appeared to recover about 260 lbs of sand. Here's my weight setup, I measured the empty shop vac and tree stump, and was about 20 lbs. Then I dumped vacs weighing 71, 64.2, 75.2, 113.8, and 37.6. Subtract 100 lbs of the wood block/vac empty weight, and I get 260 lbs.

    (There's my oldest in the drink, and the toes of middle boy on the slide. They love the pool, I want to get it RIGHT so we can enjoy it!)



    Finally this is what 2 days of running no filter did to my pool. Was mostly clear with no color. Now it's cloudy with a shade of green.

    But who do I trust, the manual says "Sand surface should be leveled and should come to within 6" of the top of the filter tank." But it also says use the "correct amount" as specified in the table, which is 250lbs of sand. Most of what I've searched says people fill their filters up about 1/2 way, which is about where mine was, perhaps a tad below half.
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    Quick Thursday evening update:

    Both the filter to multiport seal and standpipe w/laterals assembly arrived today. The new standpipe (meant for a S244T filter) is a definite upgrade to the old standpipe. The new pipe could be lowered into the filter, then simply unfold the laterals and you're ready to rock. Old one, you had to hold the pipe up, and thread in each lateral until they were all snug. No laterals could be installed prior to dropping in the pipe, what a pain in the butt.

    Anyrate, dropped in the pipe, dumped in all the sand I had, and fired up the filter to due some seriously overdue pool filtration. Stopped by local hardware store on the way home, but they had no sand. I figure I'm maybe 50 lbs low. It appears that the sand is 'fluffy' on first installation, as the sand I put back in was at a higher level than what I took out, but still wasn't 6" from the top. I'll get some sand later and dump it in. But leaving for the weekend tomorrow, so I wanted the filter humming.

    I attempted to snap some pics, but mother nature had other ideas. Thunderstorm rolled through, and I was drenched by the time I got the pump going.
    14,000 gallon rectangle vinyl pool. 4' depth throughout
    Hayward SP2605x7 3/4 HP pump and S-220T sand filter (23 GPM filter rate) with SP0714T multi-port valve.
    Inline chlorinator
    T104R pump timer

  11. Back To Top    #11
    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Deep Cleaning FAIL, is there a fix?

    all's well that ends well.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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