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Thread: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

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    Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    I am very interested in this option (B2984 with external switch/automation). However, my wet-end has a crack in it so I want to replace the entire pump. What recommendations can you make for buying the wet-end (both where and what model) to buy and then add the B2984 motor?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Re: Energy Efficient Pump Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by karmabiker View Post
    And another follow up. Pool supply world is the cheapest with the TFP discount and they have been great from a customer service standpoint.
    What is our TFP discount at Pool Supply World?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    The official discount ended years ago, though sometimes they will still give you a good deal if you mention TFP.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Why not just buy the entire pump? The extra efficiency of that motor on low speed will probably not be enough to pay for the cost difference of a piece wise purchase vs the entire purchase.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Why not just buy the entire pump? The extra efficiency of that motor on low speed will probably not be enough to pay for the cost difference of a piece wise purchase vs the entire purchase.
    Ok. I like your point. Now I guess I'm back to "what pump"?

    Is there a specific brand that most folks would agree on as quality or best?

    Also, the VS pumps don't seem to advertise HP so I'm not sure how to adequately size for my pool. I've always been inclined to over buy for quality, performance and longevity reasons.
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Your signature does not show any high flow rate needs or variable speed needs. So get a small 1HP 2 speed pump like the Superflo.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Your signature does not show any high flow rate needs or variable speed needs. So get a small 1HP 2 speed pump like the Superflo.
    jb, what would qualify as high flow needs? I always thought that 30,000 gallons, spillover spa and full Texas sun made a difference. I also have a 9 foot deep end and an AutoPilot SWG. Do I really only need a 1 HP pump?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    You don't mention the spa in your signature. You very likely need a pump larger than 1 HP to get the correct effect from the spa jets.

    What specific pump do you have now? And how are the spa jets with that pump? That will tell us what size pump you need to have the spa work well.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    2014-07-05 11.28.21.jpg

    I currently have a B129

    The spa jets are fine in my opinion. We have a blower system also but I don't turn it on. Partly because the blower motor is going out and is super loud but mostly because I don't really like the loudness of even a properly working spa blower system in the spa itself. I prefer a calm, relaxing soak instead of a vigorous beating.

    Also, I have a Polaris but it has it's own booster pump so I assume it is irrelevant to the pool pump sizing discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will update my signature. I didn't really know how to phrase it when I created my signature several years ago.
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Yup, spa changes the answer completely.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Yup, spa changes the answer completely.
    I have changed my signature now for a "hopefully" complete picture.
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    You have shown a picture of the motor but the pump is important too. What is the make/model of the pump (i.e. wet end)? Picture will do too if you don't know.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Mark,

    The label is unreadable. It looks like just a cheap base model Hayward. I've included a picture of it.

    On closer inspection, I am now thinking the leak is from my shaft seal and not the housing. Is this pump "good enough" to just replace the motor with the super cool B2984 motor (rebuilding the wet end too, of course)?

    2014-07-05 12.37.10.jpg
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    That is a Super II pump and probably the SP3015EEAZ. It is a full rated 1 1/2 HP pump.

    An equivalent pump in a two speed:

    Whisperflo WFDS-6 or WFDS-28
    TriStar SP32152EE

    How are your spa jets, too strong, weak or just right?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    I think they are just right. They pull in air when the spa is on just like they are supposed to.

    So, is the pump any good? Can I just upgrade with new 2-speed efficient motor? Also, I'm learning about the C-flange and Square-flange. Is one better than the other? I notice that the B2984 seems to only be available for the square-flange. Since, my current pump is a C-flange, would something like this perform as well or better than the B2984? ...or would I be better off in the long run just getting a whole new assembly (pump, motor)

    If it helps for positive identification, here is a picture of the unreadable label:

    2014-07-05 11.28.29.jpg
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Super II is a 56J frame so you can't use a 56Y square frame.

    But yes, you can replace the motor with a two speed but I thought you said the wet end was cracked.

    If you want to just replace the motor, the B977/B2977 is the correct motor.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Mark, I did say I thought the housing was cracked before. But, after taking the motor out to inspect the condition of the impeller and shaft seal, I now think it is just the shaft seal leaking. Also, when the pump is off, the concrete pad stays completely dry (no leaking). It only leaks when running. The water was coming from underneath the pump so I assumed it was the housing but now I understand that water that makes it past the shaft seal then drains through a drain channel on the bottom of the flange. So, now I am thinking I may just take the easy way out and install a go kit, impeller and new high efficiency motor.

    Is the model of pump (wet end) that I have, good enough for me to reap the benefits of a new high efficiency 2-speed motor?

    I have read several times that the impeller is changed out for a 1 HP impeller when installing the 2-speed motor. Can you expand on that?
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Yes it sounds like a shaft seal leak and a common point of failure.


    Is the model of pump (wet end) that I have, good enough for me to reap the benefits of a new high efficiency 2-speed motor?
    Absolutely. The difference in wet end performance is much much smaller than that between full speed and low speed.



    I have read several times that the impeller is changed out for a 1 HP impeller when installing the 2-speed motor. Can you expand on that?
    Given that you have a spa, I would highly recommend that you do not replace your existing impeller. Reducing the size of the impeller will make the spa jets weaker.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Mark, thank you immensely for sharing your expertise with me and your guidance. Last question (I think):

    Can you recommend a super efficient 2-speed motor for my application?

    Here are the points I think are relevant:
    1. Electric rate here is .11
    2. Full sun most of the day on the pool
    3. We will live in this house till we die so ROI is easier given the length of time allowed
    4. Most of my plumbing is 2" except for the detour it takes through the Raypak heater where it is 1.5"
    5. I will be installing remote and automation (valves, etc) as soon as I settle on a standard I like that is available. (I wonder if there are any Insteon systems?)
    6. I have an AutoPilot SC-60 SWG installed which currently controls the pump but it won't manage a 2-speed motor to the best of my knowledge. I may have to get that automation system ordered today also.

    I really think I need to get the new motor ordered today as my motor bearings are on the brink of failure right now. I'm sure this came from the previously un-diagnosed shaft seal failure. It became very loud yesterday, so much so that I had to turn off the pump during the pool party we had going on.
    30K IG, Plaster with spillover spa, 9 ft deep end with spring base diving board
    48sqft DE Filter, 3HP VS motor, Hayward SPII, Raypak RP2100 Propane heater
    AutoPilot Pool Pilot Digital with SC-60 and pump relay (220v)
    Polaris 280. Pentiar Booster Pump, TF-100 Test Kit, Speed Stir
    Austin, Texas (It's hot)

  20. Back To Top    #20
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Building an Energy Efficient Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    If you want to just replace the motor, the B977/B2977 is the correct motor.
    I though I already did. That is the best you can get for that pump.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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