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Thread: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

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    DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    I didn't get too much feed back in my last thread, but since that time, I've made some decisions. If you didn't see that thread and are interested in helping, here it is http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...103#post690103

    I'm 99.9% sold on the Pentair SF-N2-1A SuperFlo Energy Efficient Two Speed Inground Pump with Switch, 1 HP.

    The next question is which filter? DE or Cartridge. DE sounds like the better filter for quality, but it also sounds much more expensive to maintain. The upfront cost of a DE is more than a Cartridge, and the DE requires a powder load on a monthly basis whereas with the Cartridge I can replace it yearly (if that) and just rinse it when needed.

    It also seems like my chlorine bill will go down with a DE, but I'm not sure. Even then, I'm still buying powder.

    Lastly, since I'm going with a pentair pump, is it easier to use a pentair filter or is install easy no matter the brand matching? As far as filter goes, it seems hayward may be the way to go.

    Any advice would help

  2. Back To Top    #2
    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    What are you currently using for chlorination? Liquid chlorine or SWCG? Are you planning on adding a SWCG?
    The reason I ask, is every time you back wash you discard some water, and chemicals (Salt/CYA).
    Both filters have their pros/cons as discussed here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ter-comparison and http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...f-pool-filters

    I've got a cartridge filter (undersized according to recommendations here) that came with the house. It gets cleaned every couple of weeks during heavy usage, every couple months during the winter (pool is uncovered open year round). Overall I'm happy with it's performance.

    You can add synthetic DE to a cartridge filter to improve it's filtering, then it washes out when you clean it.

    Sounds like a good pump choice, 2-speed is the way to go, you'll want to run it on low speed 90% of the time, except for back washing if you go that route, vacuuming, and reading the pressure gauge to know when to clean the filter.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    In the last four years, my DE filter has only needed cleaning 6 times. So the expense isn't great. I don;t know where you got that a DE filter needs monthly backwashes. All the filter does is strain out stuff. So your chlorine usage will be the same no matter what type of filter you get.

    Whatever you get, while it's being plumbed, install some way to empty water from the pool. A multiport valve, a Tee with a hose spigot or gate valve, whatever. If you get torrential rains or a Calcium buildup and you need to drain some water, it's so nice to be able to just connect a hose and let it run.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    I have a cartridge filter and love it. No backwashing and no adding DE. Easy as pie. You should not have to replace the cartridges every year either. In three or fours years, maybe, but a lot depends on how you maintain it along with your pool water. My cartridge filters spectacularly and my water is absolutely crystal clear. Depending how large the filter is and how much contaminants gets into your pool will determine how often you have to clean it. This goes for any type of filter.

    I have a fairly large filter of 420 sq ft, on a medium size pool of almost 15K gallons. I clean it in April and can go easy 6 months without having to clean it again. Takes about 1 1/2 hrs to clean all of the cartridges with a water hose.

    Matching brands will not make the install any easier or better.

    IF you happen to be in the market for 3 pieces of equipment, then it makes sense to go all with the same brand because you get a 3 year warranty by doing so,(at least from Pentair - dont know about other brands) instead of the typical 1 year.

    As for how often to clean the DE filter, dependent again on size and your environment. There is no once a month rule. Do it only when it needs it.

    The filter doesnt have any bearing on the chlorine at all.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobodaclown View Post
    What are you currently using for chlorination? Liquid chlorine or SWCG? Are you planning on adding a SWCG?
    The reason I ask, is every time you back wash you discard some water, and chemicals (Salt/CYA).
    Both filters have their pros/cons as discussed here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ter-comparison and http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...f-pool-filters

    I've got a cartridge filter (undersized according to recommendations here) that came with the house. It gets cleaned every couple of weeks during heavy usage, every couple months during the winter (pool is uncovered open year round). Overall I'm happy with it's performance.

    You can add synthetic DE to a cartridge filter to improve it's filtering, then it washes out when you clean it.

    Sounds like a good pump choice, 2-speed is the way to go, you'll want to run it on low speed 90% of the time, except for back washing if you go that route, vacuuming, and reading the pressure gauge to know when to clean the filter.
    Thank you all so much for your replies. This is a great help. Looks like people are feeling the cartridge!
    Liquid Chlorine and Tablets

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    In the last four years, my DE filter has only needed cleaning 6 times. So the expense isn't great. I don;t know where you got that a DE filter needs monthly backwashes. All the filter does is strain out stuff. So your chlorine usage will be the same no matter what type of filter you get.

    Whatever you get, while it's being plumbed, install some way to empty water from the pool. A multiport valve, a Tee with a hose spigot or gate valve, whatever. If you get torrential rains or a Calcium buildup and you need to drain some water, it's so nice to be able to just connect a hose and let it run.
    Thanks so much. I believe I have what you are referring to in the ways of draining the pool. Behind the filter, I have a valve that will initially drain the filter, but the water simply keeps on running. There are pics in the link of my first post if you can confirm. Thanks again!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    I have a cartridge filter and love it. No backwashing and no adding DE. Easy as pie. You should not have to replace the cartridges every year either. In three or fours years, maybe, but a lot depends on how you maintain it along with your pool water. My cartridge filters spectacularly and my water is absolutely crystal clear. Depending how large the filter is and how much contaminants gets into your pool will determine how often you have to clean it. This goes for any type of filter.

    I have a fairly large filter of 420 sq ft, on a medium size pool of almost 15K gallons. I clean it in April and can go easy 6 months without having to clean it again. Takes about 1 1/2 hrs to clean all of the cartridges with a water hose.

    Matching brands will not make the install any easier or better.

    IF you happen to be in the market for 3 pieces of equipment, then it makes sense to go all with the same brand because you get a 3 year warranty by doing so,(at least from Pentair - dont know about other brands) instead of the typical 1 year.

    As for how often to clean the DE filter, dependent again on size and your environment. There is no once a month rule. Do it only when it needs it.

    The filter doesnt have any bearing on the chlorine at all.
    Fantastic Answer!! Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Here's what I was suggesting. Anywhere there's an elbow between the pump and the filter a Tee could replace it.

    pumpsetup.jpg
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Here's what I was suggesting. Anywhere there's an elbow between the pump and the filter a Tee could replace it.

    pumpsetup.jpg
    All I can say is your speedy response is unbelievable. Thanks!!

    Do you have a cartridge filter suggestion? When I look for one to buy, I'm just getting the cartridges, not the housing/filter itself.

    As for draining, will this do? You can see the valve turns to allow water to flow out onto the concrete. The second picture is just so you can see the positioning.




  8. Back To Top    #8
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Looks like it's been done. That valve looks like overkill.... I would have put a reducer and threads and a hose spigot. Then it's easy to attach a garden hose to carry the water off where you want it. That's how I reduce my CH buildup - haul the hose off to water the lawns. Although once I did stick it down the cleanout for the kitchen sink... I'm sure a couple thousand gallons of water at a good flow did wonders for clearing the pipes.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    Looks like it's been done. That valve looks like overkill.... I would have put a reducer and threads and a hose spigot. Then it's easy to attach a garden hose to carry the water off where you want it. That's how I reduce my CH buildup - haul the hose off to water the lawns. Although once I did stick it down the cleanout for the kitchen sink... I'm sure a couple thousand gallons of water at a good flow did wonders for clearing the pipes.
    Richard, thank you so much!! Sounds like attaching a spigot for a hose shouldn't be too difficult.

    As for a filter, do you think this pentair cartridge filter is good enough? http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-Cartri...lean+and+clear

    It says 100 sq ft and my pool is about 15K gallons. Trying to not break the bank of a $500-$600 filter if I can help it.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    I don't know squat about cartridge filters. Sorry.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    I don't know squat about cartridge filters. Sorry.
    no worries. thanks for all you've done!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    100 sq ft filter on your pool may technically work, it is not the best choice unless you are strickly looking for fewer dollars to spend.


    When talking about cartridge filters, the bigger the better. A small filter like that will require you to most likely clean it a lot, at least once a month, and the filter will probably not last as long as you might want it to.

    You would do much better with a minimum 240, or even a 320 sq ft filter.

    from looking at the filter info on your original thread, it looks to me as if a 200 sq ft filter is what you have on there now.

    Read this thread, Mark (mas985) is a guru at filter and pump sizing.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ilter-and-pump




    Quote Originally Posted by sash501 View Post
    Richard, thank you so much!! Sounds like attaching a spigot for a hose shouldn't be too difficult.

    As for a filter, do you think this pentair cartridge filter is good enough? http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-Cartri...lean+and+clear

    It says 100 sq ft and my pool is about 15K gallons. Trying to not break the bank of a $500-$600 filter if I can help it.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: DE or Cartridge? Please Read Before Answering.

    This is a classic example of why we BEG people to keep their info in one post.

    As a frequent responder, answering perhaps a hundred posts each day, I have neither the time nor inclination to search both threads, try to figure out the issue and then be able to come back with a maeningful answer. If I do, I am never sure where to put that meaningful answer.

    This is not to pick on nash501......it happens multiple times daily on this forum and the person who loses out is the OP. I know from internal discussions that many of us frequent responders simply skip over an OP who has too many threads on the board concurrently. We
    cannot keep up.

    Again, not to be harsh but trying to help all members understand how the forum works and what your best opportunity is of eliciting a meaningful response........Keep you info under one thread....we like seeing your whole story.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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