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Thread: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

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    Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Ok, I've been battling my pool all summer and decided to start over: Problems I was having. I just ordered and received a new Hayward S180T sand filter to replace my DE filter. I have been battling my pool since opening it a month ago and still have not been able to use it yet.
    Issues I was having;
    Not holding pressure- unless I went out every hour or so to bump the filter it would not circulate the pool. The motor would be running but no water would be coming out the return. This also hindered me from vacuuming as every few minutes the hose would lose suction and break loose from the skimmer

    Air bubble in the motor basket- I think this is resolved with the new O-ring and maintaining a higher water level (about 3/4 up the skimmer)

    Anyways: after talking with my father/brother-in law they recommended the switch to a sand filter so I could cut down on maintenance and ensure my pump runs for a full cycle:

    I'm currently draining the pool so that it's ready for install but I'm debating draining the whole thing and starting over. The water is dark green and murky. Is this advised or will a new pump and chemicals clear things up?

    I do not have a test kit yet. Still only have the strips and was bringing my water in to the store for testing: This resulting in me pumping $150 worth of chemicals in a few weeks back: Calcium Hardness, pH Rise, Stabilizer, and a huge bucket of Alkalinity Plus. I was adding two bags or so of shock a week also to try and clear things up.

    I just found this site so I'm doing some research and checking into the bleach , baking soda, etc. but for the time being is there a quick start general recommendation for starting off if I a)either drain the whole thing and refill with new water or b)if I only have the strips to use to test it? Or should I bring a water sample to the store and then post the results here for the time being?

    Also: anything I need to know about installing the new S180T filter? type of sand (white, right?) any modified parts needed? etc? thanks
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    From one semi newbie to another newbie, welcome!!

    I can't comment on the install of your sand filter.. as I just went from a Sand Filter to a DE filter..

    The reason your DE filter wasn't holding pressure is probably due to your water being so dirty and the filter getting clogged up.. I experienced that when I first switched over to my DE filter.. I would have to bump it every 20 - 30 minutes (my pressure would rise from 12psi -> 18psi and slowing down the return)

    As far as your pool goes... I started with extremely dark green / murky water from a pool that wasn't used in over a year and a half. I've only spent about $60 in chlorine (luckily, I am able to get the 5 gallon 12.5% jugs) and now i'm hopefully in the final days before I can use the pool.

    I would def start by ordering a good test kit (TF-100 or the K2006) - I found that to be vital in my recovery process... stock up on bleach... and read through the pool school / SLAM process and get ready to spend some quality time with your pool.

    Once you get your test kit, you should post a full set of test results here and i'm sure the more experienced guys and gals here will chime in and help you out.

    Good luck!
    16x24 AGP~11,500 Gal--- Vinyl Lining --- 3/4HP Hayward Pump --- Hayward EC40 DE Filter

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    You likely won't have to drain the whole pool. Just have to be able to drain enough and/or plug lines while installing the new sand filter. Sand filters are much better and dealing with swamps but DE can do the job as well as long as you vacuum to waste when it's real filthy and then are willing to go through some DE once it starts to clear. Are you able to run the pump with the filter bypassed? That's what I would do to see if it's a filter issue or a plumbing issue. Then once you've done that test, you should leaf rake and get everything possible off the bottom first. Then switch to vacuuming, to WASTE so that you're not constantly bumping/adding DE.

    Get your test kit ordered. The TF-100 with the XL option is the best route to go with a pool in need of an extended SLAM, which is likely in your case. If water is really cheap you could drain a good portion or most of it to reduce your chlorine usage during SLAM. If you get everything possible off the bottom through raking and vacuuming, you may not need to replace any more than is used vacuuming to waste.

    No need to buy anything but bleach before your kit arrives. You may not need baking soda or borax depending on chemistry. Before your kit gets there, get as much out as you can, vacuum then keep it circulating with a gallon of bleach each day to help keep it from getting worse. Once you get your kit, post results and we'll help you along.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    You likely won't have to drain the whole pool. Just have to be able to drain enough and/or plug lines while installing the new sand filter. Sand filters are much better and dealing with swamps but DE can do the job as well as long as you vacuum to waste when it's real filthy and then are willing to go through some DE once it starts to clear. Are you able to run the pump with the filter bypassed? That's what I would do to see if it's a filter issue or a plumbing issue. Then once you've done that test, you should leaf rake and get everything possible off the bottom first. Then switch to vacuuming, to WASTE so that you're not constantly bumping/adding DE.

    Get your test kit ordered. The TF-100 with the XL option is the best route to go with a pool in need of an extended SLAM, which is likely in your case. If water is really cheap you could drain a good portion or most of it to reduce your chlorine usage during SLAM. If you get everything possible off the bottom through raking and vacuuming, you may not need to replace any more than is used vacuuming to waste.

    No need to buy anything but bleach before your kit arrives. You may not need baking soda or borax depending on chemistry. Before your kit gets there, get as much out as you can, vacuum then keep it circulating with a gallon of bleach each day to help keep it from getting worse. Once you get your kit, post results and we'll help you along.
    Can you explain the bolded a little more? I'm not sure what that means or how I'd do that? right now the pool is drained about 1ft below the return line.
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    With the chemicals you have been tossing in, more than likely your CYA is off scale which calls for at least a partial drain to get it down to where you need it.

    Definitely get your test kit on order. Strips and Pool Store results are inaccurate at best. I don't make a dime off of a sale, but I HIGHLY recommend the TF-100 and the SpeedStir.

    Stock up on lots of bleach until the kit arrives and scoop as much debris out of the pool as you can. Any debris left in the pool when you start the slam will be eating some of the chlorine your putting in to kill the algae.

    When your test kit arrives, post up a complete set of test results and someone will be along to point you in the right direction.

    Also, get yourself some POP (Pool Owner Patience). Killing the green monster can take from a couple of days to a month or more. It all depends on how consistently you brush, test and hit it with chlorine. You can kill the monster.

    Good luck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    With the filter bypassed, if you have good circulation, the problem is likely a filter issue. If your circulation drops off, its likely a plumbing issue.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    On the S180T, there is a "recirculate" setting where the water bypasses the filter and is just returned to the pool. By taking the filter media out of the plumbing loop, you are simply recirculating the water. For an in depth look at that exact model, see the "Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter" sticky in Pumping Station.

    As said above, it sounds like the filter is doing its job correctly. Low flow and increasing pressure is normal if the filter media is clogging up quickly, and that is usually a symptom of improper chemistry leading to dirty water.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    With the pool drained, you can't test it now. I believe what he was trying to say was that if you have good circulation with the filter bypassed and no other pump issues, it is likely a filter problem. If you still have the circulation/pump issues, it is likely a plumbing problem.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    DE filters usually come with a push/pull type valve. If that's the type you have with two positions, you can either have water flow through the filter or flow to waste. If this is the type of valve you have, then the only way to "bypass" the filter is to remove the DE grids. This way you will have no restriction in the filter but still be able to circulate but no filtration. To "bypass" a DE filter, remove the grids and test circulation. You'd have to have the water level higher to test this. If you're set on the replacing with a sand filter, no need to worry you can check after replacing your DE filter.

    A sand filter will have 6 positions allowing you do Filter, Bypass, Backwash, Waste, Rinse, Closed. Perhaps a 7th for Winter.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Ok, thanks. I'll hook up the filter tomorrow probably and start adding water to normal level so I can go through this process. thanks for all the quick responses!


    EDIT: What is the SpeedStir manufacturer? I don't see it pop up on an Amazon search
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy24 View Post
    Ok, thanks. I'll hook up the filter tomorrow probably and start adding water to normal level so I can go through this process. thanks for all the quick responses!


    EDIT: What is the SpeedStir manufacturer? I don't see it pop up on an Amazon search
    http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-9265-Ma...pr_product_top
    16x24 AGP~11,500 Gal--- Vinyl Lining --- 3/4HP Hayward Pump --- Hayward EC40 DE Filter

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Ok, I hooked up the new filter and it's running great, soooo much better so far. I'm getting a strong and consistent return (had to anchor the skimmer line in the pool itself while the water level is rising back up to normal). I added 3 of the smaller 2quart Bleach containers yesterday but turned the pump off for about 8 hours over night (didn't want to risk burning out the pump if the skimmer line came out of the water by any chance). I'm guessing that bleach is already wasted now that I'm re-reading the "getting rid of a swamp article" and I need to be adding some every hour.

    My question is; before I get me test kit is there a general recommendation for adding bleach? am I looking at adding a gallon at a time, 2 quarts, etc? If I'm adding some every hour or so while only having test strips I have no clue how much to add having only used packaged shock or chlorine tabs/ powder(to skimmer) before.

    would it be easier to just get a big liquid chlorine until I have most/if all of the algae under control?


    EDIT: See below.
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    You likely won't have to drain the whole pool. Just have to be able to drain enough and/or plug lines while installing the new sand filter. Sand filters are much better and dealing with swamps but DE can do the job as well as long as you vacuum to waste when it's real filthy and then are willing to go through some DE once it starts to clear. Are you able to run the pump with the filter bypassed? That's what I would do to see if it's a filter issue or a plumbing issue. Then once you've done that test, you should leaf rake and get everything possible off the bottom first. Then switch to vacuuming, to WASTE so that you're not constantly bumping/adding DE.

    Get your test kit ordered. The TF-100 with the XL option is the best route to go with a pool in need of an extended SLAM, which is likely in your case. If water is really cheap you could drain a good portion or most of it to reduce your chlorine usage during SLAM. If you get everything possible off the bottom through raking and vacuuming, you may not need to replace any more than is used vacuuming to waste.

    No need to buy anything but bleach before your kit arrives. You may not need baking soda or borax depending on chemistry. Before your kit gets there, get as much out as you can, vacuum then keep it circulating with a gallon of bleach each day to help keep it from getting worse. Once you get your kit, post results and we'll help you along.

    Oops, disregard the previous post. I missed this the first time around. So I'm adding about a gallon a day spread out every hour during SLAM? Am I basically just walking a little around the pool and then seeing what happens until I get a better test (wife is balking at spending $60 on test kit...)?
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    No, you're adding a gallon a day to hold the algae where it is until the kit arrives. When the kit arrives, you add as much bleach as you need to get your FC to SLAM levels every time you test.
    Also, with an AG pool, you don't want to be adding all that bleach at one go as it will bleach your liner.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    A test kit is worth 10 times, maybe 100x... It's invaluable. Without it, it doesn't matter how much you spend on chemicals. Only with a great test kit can you know what chemicals to add, which saves you money and heartache.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    A test kit is worth 10 times, maybe 100x... It's invaluable. Without it, it doesn't matter how much you spend on chemicals. Only with a great test kit can you know what chemicals to add, which saves you money and heartache.
    So just to pitch it to her. If I buy the kit then what am I spending each year on Regeants (or whatever else)? Or do I buy a new kit each year?
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Just have to replace the regeants when they run out. I would recommend the speed stir also..that thing rocks.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Did your wife balk at $150 of pool chemicals.? Tell her you'll never need to spend that much again with the $60 test kit
    32,000L Fibreglass Leisure Pools IG 12.5'x23'x5' Pump: AstralPools BX1 1.0HP
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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Take a look at my signature. Year 3 will be around $100 as well, and that's with a 23000 gal pool.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    Yeah, she wasn't happy about the $150:

    So, I've had the pump running since friday, put about 6 gallons of bleach in there and it's still green but much clearer and less murky. Vacuumed a good two hours after I brushed the entire pool, not much debris though.

    I brought a water sample for testing at the pool store (ordering the TF-100) since I had to get some liquid chlorine: for what its worth here's the results

    Sat Index: 0.7
    CYA: 0
    Tot. Chl: 0.2
    Free Chl: 0.1
    pH: 8.4
    Tot. Alk: 163
    Adj. total Alk: 163
    Tot. Hardness: 124

    Anything I should do at this point? or keep doing 1 gallon/day of chlorine and wait for the test kit?
    Upstate, NY, Direct Sunlight, Above Ground (18'x 33' x 4'), Oval 15700 gallons, Vinyl; Hayward S180T sand filter; 1 HP motor; TF-100

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    Re: Newbie: Starting Over/Quick Star tAdvice

    A gallon/day and wait. Pool store results are not generally to be trusted. It's hard to wait but adding chemicals based on pool store results is not what is recommended here.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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