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Thread: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

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    poolsam's Avatar
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    Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I installed the Hayward in wall skimmer. Good water flow. So much in fact that pool water swirls around. However, all the stuff stays on the top circulating about a foot from the edge. If I leave it a few hours it clears everything, but my old intex used to clear the surface much faster. Water level is just above the 2 screws.

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    DigbyAllen's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I also just installed the Hayward skimmer and I noticed the same thing. I have a strong clockwise flow but I've seen junk float right by the skimmer a few inches away and not get sucked in. I'm still playing with the return jet to try to figure out if it makes a difference which way I point it.
    Jim
    Intex 15' x 42" -- 4,000 gallons
    installed August 2012
    Intex 2650 sand filter, Hayward skimmer
    TF-100 test kit, TFP method

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    poolsam's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    That describes my issue exactly. I see stuff circle 2 inches from skimmer and not get skimmed. However, if I leave pool all day it is always clean when I come home. I'm thinking it must be due to the water level in pool. There is no problem with pump as the inlet jet is very strong.

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I could be skimmer placement relative to your returns. What worked for me was changing the flow direction, essentially changing the relative placement without patching and cutting.

    My dogs love the pool, and you know what happens with that. Dog hair everywhere in the pool. before I changed the flow direction, I had to wait for most of it to sink then rake it out. Now, it takes about an hour to clear the surface, and there is much less that balls up on the floor.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    My skimmer is over the T in Intex, between the original factory inlet and return. I'm using the adjustable return jet that came with my Intex 2650 sand filter. I usually point it as far left and down as it will go, trying to direct the return water away from the inlet for the skimmer as much as possible. Maybe this is not optimum? It makes a pretty fast clockwise flow. Sometimes I point the return straight ahead and down if I don't want ripples on the water and I want to try to stir up stuff on the bottom. I can also tilt it up if I want splashing to aerate my water but I don't often do this. It makes the water choppy. I haven't tried pointing it towards the right, towards the skimmer, at all. I'll have to experiment.

    I was thinking maybe my water level is too high. It is just above the highest row of screws. But I really wouldn't want the water much lower if I can help it. The pool is not that deep to begin with.

    It does clear the surface eventually and when I look in the skimmer basket there are always bugs and leaves and stuff so I know it's working, but it's annoying to see stuff float right by without being sucked in.

    If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
    Jim
    Intex 15' x 42" -- 4,000 gallons
    installed August 2012
    Intex 2650 sand filter, Hayward skimmer
    TF-100 test kit, TFP method

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I see by your description that my set-up is quite a bit different from yours.

    I have my skimmer in a section that is generally on the downwind side of the pool, and the closest return (of 2) is 6 wall sections away, on the upwind side of the pool. That may be why mine seems to work better.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    mac.dblues's Avatar
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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I put my skimmer in the center of the section between the factory inlet and outlet. I recently had to drop my water level to drop my CYA and installed the Hayward return eyeball while the water was down. It can make the pool flow way to fast for the skimmer. When the water movement is slower, I can see stuff getting sucked in from farther away than when it is moving fast. Try pointing your eyeball more toward the center of the pool to slow down the flow around your pool. That is what has worked best for me so far.
    Mac.Dblues and ProfessorDaisy's Lower Arkansas Pool Install
    Intex UltraFrame 20ft x 52in deep, 9,400 Gallons / Approx 78,500 lbs, Intex 1600 GPH, 14" sand filter, Hayward Dyna-Skim SP1091LX, Taylor K-2006, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer
    First Fill May 2014, Deck finished June 2014, Mods happening probably on a continuous basis. Stay tuned.....

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by DigbyAllen View Post
    I was thinking maybe my water level is too high. It is just above the highest row of screws. But I really wouldn't want the water much lower if I can help it. The pool is not that deep to begin with.
    Am I correct in understanding that that the water level is above the top of the opening in the front of the skimmer ? If so then it won't be "skimming", just picking up *near* the surface. I was experimenting with a DIY skimmer a while back -- didn't realize at the start how important it was to be taking water right from the surface.

    Once I realized how important the floating weir/door was I scrapped the DIY skimmer and picked up a no-name ABG skimmer from Amazon (the no-name ones fit a 1-1/4" Intex hose without any extra parts) and hanging it inside the hot tub with the hose running up over the rim with the water mid-way up the opening.

    IIRC the pool frame makes it hard to mount the skimmer right at the top, but I have seen people mount it so the top part of the skimmer seems to overlap the bottom part of the frame. If I'm understanding correctly it might be worth letting the water level drop a bit temporarily so it's lower than the top of the opening, just to confirm that the skimmer does work properly then. If that's the case, then either look into raising the skimmer somehow or covering the bottom part of the skimmer opening so that relatively more water comes from near the surface.
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I am trying to understand the water level issue. I imagine that if the water level was low, say at level of lower screw, you would get much more surface suction than if the water level was above top screw where the suction would be working on almost twice the water height in opening. Closing off the lower portion of skimmer opening perhaps would allow skimmer to work with water at 1 inch below top skimmer.

    I also am wondering if the "eyeball" is designed for larger pool and produces to much flow for a 16 foot round pool.

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by poolsam View Post
    I am trying to understand the water level issue. I imagine that if the water level was low, say at level of lower screw, you would get much more surface suction than if the water level was above top screw where the suction would be working on almost twice the water height in opening. Closing off the lower portion of skimmer opening perhaps would allow skimmer to work with water at 1 inch below top skimmer.
    The floating door is what makes skimmers work -- as long as the water level is somewhere between the bottom and the top of the opening the door will float up and down so water only comes in from the very top. It's only if the water level is above the top of the opening where you might have to improvise.

    Is your floating door moving up and down freely ?

    Quote Originally Posted by poolsam View Post
    I also am wondering if the "eyeball" is designed for larger pool and produces to much flow for a 16 foot round pool.
    It's possible, but (a) too much flow is way better than too little flow, (b) you can always reduce the speed of water circulation by angling the eyeball less (ie point it more straight-ahead).
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    The floating door is what makes skimmers work -- as long as the water level is somewhere between the bottom and the top of the opening the door will float up and down so water only comes in from the very top. It's only if the water level is above the top of the opening where you might have to improvise.

    Is your floating door moving up and down freely ?
    My water level is midway up the opening. The floating door is moving freely up and down, but tends to be mostly horizontal due to the force of the water entering the skimmer. When I said water level was at the top row of screws earlier I meant the topmost of the two rows of two screws on the opening, not the very top row of three screws. In other words, the skimmer is not completely submerged. The water level is about halfway up the skimmer opening. I should have included a picture.

    I guess I expected a much stronger pull on the surface. The skimmer is obviously pulling in a lot of water. It just seems like it is pulling in water from slightly below the surface because I see debris just floating two inches past the skimmer that doesn't get pulled in and I can't understand why not. Could be strong surface current moving past the skimmer rather than into the skimmer, or maybe even wind. I'll try to get a video. That might help show what I'm talking about.
    Jim
    Intex 15' x 42" -- 4,000 gallons
    installed August 2012
    Intex 2650 sand filter, Hayward skimmer
    TF-100 test kit, TFP method

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Hmm, maybe this is where the wide-mouth skimmers come in. I have a smaller pump/filter (1000 GPH vs 2650) and even with that the stream of water going into the skimmer is ~3/4 to 1 inch deep, so with a higher flow rate the bottom of the flow would be even further below the surface.

    Presumably a wide-mouth skimmer would take in water over an area that was twice as wide and half as deep. I guess you could add a second regular skimmer and get the same effect.

    I have also seen "skimmer arms" advertised which if combined with a strong current along the wall might give you a bit of a whirlpool effect in front of the skimmer, giving it a couple of chances to pick up floating debris. That would be easy to prototype...
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by DigbyAllen View Post
    My water level is midway up the opening. The floating door is moving freely up and down, but tends to be mostly horizontal due to the force of the water entering the skimmer. When I said water level was at the top row of screws earlier I meant the topmost of the two rows of two screws on the opening, not the very top row of three screws. In other words, the skimmer is not completely submerged. The water level is about halfway up the skimmer opening. I should have included a picture.

    I guess I expected a much stronger pull on the surface. The skimmer is obviously pulling in a lot of water. It just seems like it is pulling in water from slightly below the surface because I see debris just floating two inches past the skimmer that doesn't get pulled in and I can't understand why not. Could be strong surface current moving past the skimmer rather than into the skimmer, or maybe even wind. I'll try to get a video. That might help show what I'm talking about.
    I think you just have your surface water circulating too fast. Try pointing your return more towards the center of the pool. Just a little bit at a time each day until you like the way your skimmer is working.
    Mac.Dblues and ProfessorDaisy's Lower Arkansas Pool Install
    Intex UltraFrame 20ft x 52in deep, 9,400 Gallons / Approx 78,500 lbs, Intex 1600 GPH, 14" sand filter, Hayward Dyna-Skim SP1091LX, Taylor K-2006, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer
    First Fill May 2014, Deck finished June 2014, Mods happening probably on a continuous basis. Stay tuned.....

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by mac.dblues View Post
    I think you just have your surface water circulating too fast. Try pointing your return more towards the center of the pool. Just a little bit at a time each day until you like the way your skimmer is working.
    Thanks mac.dblues, I think you're right.

    But maybe I'm obsessing over nothing. Today I did a little test with some different colored plastic milk caps (they float even when full of water). I scattered them around the pool and watched them. Currently my pool has a very strong clockwise flow. A few caps floated within 2-3 inches of the skimmer without being pulled in. It was frustrating to watch and I decided to walk away and do something else for a while.

    I came back 15 min. later and all the milk caps were in the skimmer (along with bugs, leaves, and grass clippings). I repeated the test with the same result. So it seems that everything on the surface is eventually making its way into the skimmer. However, it's still annoying to watch stuff float right by the skimmer, so I think I'll try your suggestion and keep experimenting with my flow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    I have also seen "skimmer arms" advertised which if combined with a strong current along the wall might give you a bit of a whirlpool effect in front of the skimmer, giving it a couple of chances to pick up floating debris. That would be easy to prototype...
    I was thinking the same thing. I'll see what I can rig up.
    Jim
    Intex 15' x 42" -- 4,000 gallons
    installed August 2012
    Intex 2650 sand filter, Hayward skimmer
    TF-100 test kit, TFP method

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    A piece of 1-1/2" PVC split in half lengthwise, with a bit of pool noodle glued to the outer end for flotation, and another noodle piece a little taller than your skimmer opening glued to the inner end.....

    You see where I'm going......
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by DigbyAllen View Post
    Thanks mac.dblues, I think you're right.

    But maybe I'm obsessing over nothing. Today I did a little test with some different colored plastic milk caps (they float even when full of water). I scattered them around the pool and watched them. Currently my pool has a very strong clockwise flow. A few caps floated within 2-3 inches of the skimmer without being pulled in. It was frustrating to watch and I decided to walk away and do something else for a while.

    I came back 15 min. later and all the milk caps were in the skimmer (along with bugs, leaves, and grass clippings). I repeated the test with the same result. So it seems that everything on the surface is eventually making its way into the skimmer. However, it's still annoying to watch stuff float right by the skimmer, so I think I'll try your suggestion and keep experimenting with my flow.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I was thinking the same thing. I'll see what I can rig up.
    I'm the same way. I want to see the skimmer reach out about a foot from the wall and suck stuff in. It's almost like watching a breakaway touchdown run.
    Mac.Dblues and ProfessorDaisy's Lower Arkansas Pool Install
    Intex UltraFrame 20ft x 52in deep, 9,400 Gallons / Approx 78,500 lbs, Intex 1600 GPH, 14" sand filter, Hayward Dyna-Skim SP1091LX, Taylor K-2006, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer
    First Fill May 2014, Deck finished June 2014, Mods happening probably on a continuous basis. Stay tuned.....

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    I have the same problem with a wide mouth skimmer. However, I think my issue is due the stock intex pump. I don't think it's strong enough to create the vortex is like to see....

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    Re: Hayward wall skimmer in intex pool not skimming

    Quote Originally Posted by Dadrinka View Post
    I have the same problem with a wide mouth skimmer. However, I think my issue is due the stock intex pump. I don't think it's strong enough to create the vortex is like to see....
    It depends which "stock" pump you have. My pool came with the "stock" intex sand filter and pump. It is the 14" filter and the 1600 gph pump. With the Hayward return eyeball, I can get the water rotating way to fast for the skimmer to be effective. If you are standing at the return ball to aim it, it will be at the 6 'o clock position. We have ours aimed between 11 and 1130. Plenty of circulation through the whole pool but not so much that bugs, leaves, tree ****e, etc. are blowing past the skimmer over and over.
    Mac.Dblues and ProfessorDaisy's Lower Arkansas Pool Install
    Intex UltraFrame 20ft x 52in deep, 9,400 Gallons / Approx 78,500 lbs, Intex 1600 GPH, 14" sand filter, Hayward Dyna-Skim SP1091LX, Taylor K-2006, SpeedStir, Sample Sizer
    First Fill May 2014, Deck finished June 2014, Mods happening probably on a continuous basis. Stay tuned.....

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