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Thread: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

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    To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Well I did it! I was doing so good keeping a clean clear pool (knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) about how to really do that but spending cash hand over fist on Phos Free, dry acid, chlorine pucks, Poolblaster Max HD, etc etc. Then the rain hit. And it hit HARD. I was not prepared for this.

    I've done a lot of reading on this site today and want to first say THANK YOU to all the super knowledgeable people out there sharing all of their great info, experience and knowledge as well as spending their time helping us newbies fumble around towards a clear / clean pool. You are all truly an awesome group and I'm very thankful I found this site and spent the evening reading pool school etc.

    I've only started Pool School mind you. I'm at war with this algae and have been frustrated with my lack of results in the last 48 hours. I have a LOT to learn. That said I skimmed some things and got to the stuff I needed to start. Chlorine! So that's really IN BLEACH!? Humph! Imagine that! Okay this stuff is packed with 8.25%... Feeling confident. BLEACH! *shakes head* 6 dollar sacks of shock all this time and all I need is bleach...

    1. A test kit. Again I went ahead and went to Leslie's. Knowing full well there are better test kits available, I've armed myself with Leslie's Complete Pool Care DPD Test Kit - measures Free & Total Chlorine or Bromine, pH, Acid & Base Demand, Total Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness and Cyanuric Acid. Pool boy that helped me find it asked if I was tired of coming up there to get my water tested. My children were there and just grinned awaiting my response. It's a good thing they were. He assured me this was the best kit they sell. 69 bucks. Pool boy stated it's basically what they used to do tests. I had to chime in... "Does that mean my pool is about to get more green"? Neither of us laughed. The kids did though.

    2. Thoroughly vac'd the pool with my Pool Blaster Max HD. LOVE that thing! Scolded the kids though because there should NEVER be pebbles in the pool and I KNOW I didn't put them there. But no more grass, leaves or rocks. Just green stuff which I've now managed to stir into a frenzy causing my little pool to now look like a swamp.

    3. Cleaned the cartridge using the flat setting on my multi-function spray nozzle that has 8 functions ... OFF isn't one of them but it seems to get the cartridge nice and white and clean again. Is this an OK practice? Seems silly to replace it every time it gets gunk in it but then again, I'm WAY out of me element here!

    4. Spent some time staring at all the little bottles. Made a drink. Read the directions on the lid several times. I can do this.

    5. Deep breath. Got my first test completed. pH = 7.2 I think. Okay. CYA = 80!!! SERIOUSLY!? It says to xfer the combined solution of water and Cyanuric Acid Reagent into the thingy until the black dot goes away. It's at 80! Getting nervous now. FC= either 0 or 1 .. hard to tell. I think it's 1.

    6. Going to the nifty pool calculator thing. Plug in my numbers. According to this thing I should have a min FC of 6, target FC of 9 and a shock FC of 31. No problem! Wait what? 172 oz of 8.25% bleach!? REALLY? These bottles are 64 oz bottles. I hesitantly dumped them in.

    7. Looking to check FC again approx 1 hr later. HEY! It's RED! But wait the scale only goes to 10. Looks like the water color actually matches the 10 mark. Re-read the directions. It says here if the color is off the scale to repeat the test and only use 4.5 mL of pool water and then dilute to the 9 mL mark with tap water. NOOOO our tap water is TERRIBLE around here. Probably the worst in the country. I used bottled water. Now my color puts me at FC = 5. Hummm Ok so I guess my FC is 10. Will 44 more oz of bleach get me to FC @ 31?

    At this point I'm scared. Should I re-measure CYA? Can I re-measure CYA at this point? Can my shock level in such a small pool really be 31? Need a nod and a push at this point.
    Romie - Summer Escapes 16 x 42 Quick Set Swimming Pool (Vinyl)- 3800 gallons - 800 gallon per hour filter pump (Model RP800)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Welcome to TFP!

    I will only address your first bullet, although I think you now realize, that is not one of the recommended test kits. You need to add the FAS-DPD chlorine test to have the equivalent to the K2006. I wish you would have read that article in Pool School before buying. Go to tftestkits.net and order it with the XL option to get through the SLAM process.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    This will convert your K-2005 into a K-2006. You might need two, though, clearing a swamp. It can read FC accurately up to 50! That's why it's listed as a prerequisite in the SLAM article.

    Clean the filter when the pressure climbs 25% or you can see a decrease in flow.

    The CYA level is essential to know. But it needs bright sunlight, so you're stuck there until tomorrow.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Thanks guys. It's ordered and on its way. In the mean time.... any suggestions until that shows up on the door step? What can I do tomorrow to be proactive and keep the problem from getting worse? If I did this right today when I did the CYA test it said 80 which blew my mind. I can do it tomorrow in the heat of the day though and post a new number.
    Romie - Summer Escapes 16 x 42 Quick Set Swimming Pool (Vinyl)- 3800 gallons - 800 gallon per hour filter pump (Model RP800)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    You could replace 1/3 to 1/2 the water to get the CYA down.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Gotcha. Might as well! May rig something up to vac out some of the 'stuff' and have that go directly to the yard. Quick question about this test kit I've been looking over. When testing FC, the following is mentioned in the documentation: If color is off-scale: repeat testing using 4.5 mL sample diluted to 9mL mark with tap water. Multiply reading by 2 to obtain approximate level. If color is still off scale, repeat test using 1.8 mL sample diluted to 9 ml mark with tap water. Multiply reading by 5 to obtain approx level.

    So, would this kit then also be able to test up to a FC of 50 as well if the final multiplier is 5 with a max scale of 10?

    I'm VERY VERY NEW to all of this so please forgive my ignorance on the matter and thank you both for your time and suggestions!
    Romie - Summer Escapes 16 x 42 Quick Set Swimming Pool (Vinyl)- 3800 gallons - 800 gallon per hour filter pump (Model RP800)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    The more you dilute, the lower the accuracy. Plus it is very hard to differentiate any of the colors.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    That makes perfect sense. Alright tomorrow I'll do the CYA test again and post those numbers. Should have the add on kit in a couple of days. Thanks again!!
    Romie - Summer Escapes 16 x 42 Quick Set Swimming Pool (Vinyl)- 3800 gallons - 800 gallon per hour filter pump (Model RP800)

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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by romieb69 View Post
    Gotcha. Might as well! May rig something up to vac out some of the 'stuff' and have that go directly to the yard. Quick question about this test kit I've been looking over. When testing FC, the following is mentioned in the documentation: If color is off-scale: repeat testing using 4.5 mL sample diluted to 9mL mark with tap water. Multiply reading by 2 to obtain approximate level. If color is still off scale, repeat test using 1.8 mL sample diluted to 9 ml mark with tap water. Multiply reading by 5 to obtain approx level.

    So, would this kit then also be able to test up to a FC of 50 as well if the final multiplier is 5 with a max scale of 10?

    I'm VERY VERY NEW to all of this so please forgive my ignorance on the matter and thank you both for your time and suggestions!
    I have the same kit and used it before I got the FAS-DPD test. It does, in theory, work up to 25 ppm on the chlorine scale using a the dilution/multiplier method. (The 10, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 on right side the scale is for Bromine!). That being said, dilution and color matching is much more challenging to get an accurate result than with the titration/color change of the FAS-DPD test. Also, the shock levels above 60 CYA are greater than 25, so sometimes you are maxed out even with dilution. But, it's better than nothing until your kit arrives!

    Good luck!
    15 ft x 35 ft, 20,000 gallon IG Plaster, Sta-Rite Cristal Flo II Sand Filter (3.15 ft2/300 lbs, 70 gal/min), Sta-Rite Pump (1 HP), Pentair MasterTemp 400 Heater (400,000 BTU), CoverStar Automatic Cover, Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark Vacuum, Built April 2014

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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    My responses in red....

    Quote Originally Posted by romieb69 View Post
    I was not prepared for this.

    You better get ready if you wanna do it right. Bleach, bleach, and a little more bleach.

    I've only started Pool School mind you. I'm at war with this algae and have been frustrated with my lack of results in the last 48 hours.

    It took a while to get this green, gonna take a while to make it not green again. Do the recommended steps exactly how it's outlined in pool school and you will not fail!

    1. Pool boy stated it's basically what they used to do tests. I had to chime in... "Does that mean my pool is about to get more green"? Neither of us laughed. The kids did though.

    and so did I!

    2. Thoroughly vac'd the pool ......But no more grass, leaves or rocks.

    This is a great first step!

    3. Cleaned the cartridge ...Is this an OK practice?

    Clean your cartridge when you notice a rise in pressure.

    4. Made a drink. Read the directions on the lid several times. I can do this.

    Yes you can!

    5. Deep breath. Got my first test completed. pH = 7.2 I think. Okay. CYA = 80!!! SERIOUSLY!? It says to xfer the combined solution of water and Cyanuric Acid Reagent into the thingy until the black dot goes away. It's at 80! Getting nervous now. FC= either 0 or 1 .. hard to tell. I think it's 1.

    pH 7.2 - that good!
    CYA 80 - not so good but not detrimental. Just means you need to do one of two things: suck it up and use more bleach than you would have to if the CYA were lower OR do a partial drain/refill to lower the CYA level.
    FC - 0 or maybe 1 - either way, get some bleach in there!


    6. Going to the nifty pool calculator thing. Plug in my numbers. According to this thing I should have a min FC of 6, target FC of 9 and a shock FC of 31. No problem! Wait what? 172 oz of 8.25% bleach!? REALLY? These bottles are 64 oz bottles. I hesitantly dumped them in.

    Hey, you get that part! That's great!

    7. Looking to check FC again approx 1 hr later. HEY! It's RED! But wait the scale only goes to 10. Looks like the water color actually matches the 10 mark. Re-read the directions. It says here if the color is off the scale to repeat the test and only use 4.5 mL of pool water and then dilute to the 9 mL mark with tap water. I used bottled water. Now my color puts me at FC = 5. Hummm Ok so I guess my FC is 10. Will 44 more oz of bleach get me to FC @ 31?

    Trust your self. Trust your results. Trust correctly entered information placed in pool math and do it!


    Should I re-measure CYA? If you are confident that you did the test correctly, use your numbers and the advice above to either deal with it or lower it.

    Can I re-measure CYA at this point? Can my shock level in such a small pool really be 31? Need a nod and a push at this point.
    You should study and understand THIS chart for Chlorine/CYA relationship.

    and get another drink.
    27' AG 18K Gallons ~ Cartridge Filter ~ Pentair 1.5 HP Pump

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    Beens's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    The fas-dpd test is great and much easier to know your results because there's no color matching. You get your sample, put in a heaping scoop of powder and (assuming you have some chlorine in the water) it turns pink! Then you add drops of the solution in and count how many drops it takes to turn the water clear/colorless again. Divide drops in half and voilą, you have your FC! (20 drops would be 10FC) It's very simple and accurate. I think you'll like it!

    I'm mainly commenting so I can be sure this thread is part of my subscribed list.

    I especially enjoyed the part at the pool store when you asked about the water getting more green. I'd be giggling with the kids if I had overheard it!

    Welcome to TFP! You're well on your way to your own trouble free pool.
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Great stuff guys. I'm excited to be gaining a new understanding of all of this and I'm looking forward to the challenge of getting this water clear and getting those kids playing in their pool again! Can't thank you all enough for the directions, pointers, explanations and pushes in the right direction. I've spent a lot of hours today reading posts and looking at charts and google'ing terms (which bring me right back here)... I NEVER thought a simple 3800 gallon 'quick set' pool would be this complex but I'm learning and those kids are hovering over me asking me if I've got it figured out yet... so I have real motivation! To a 'newbie' like me, today has been filled with a lot of new information to the point of getting a little overwhelming. That said, I read in another post from a newbie today having a similar problem... and some advice was mentioned that really clicked with me... and it was simple. They said "it will start to make sense when you go do it". I totally embrace that concept. Hey ya never know, maybe when I learn to keep a kiddie pool in check maybe I'll have the confidence to drop the dollars it would take to dig a hole and have something built a little more permanent! Thanks again everyone ... I'll let ya'll know how things go tomorrow.
    Romie - Summer Escapes 16 x 42 Quick Set Swimming Pool (Vinyl)- 3800 gallons - 800 gallon per hour filter pump (Model RP800)

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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Once you get ahold of a sparkly pool you'll never let it go. It's so easy by testing every day and taking control of your pool.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Giggle from here as well!

    Good for you for taking over your own pool!


    Now get that pool clear so those kids can get in!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Loved the first post. Had to explain to the wife what I was laughing about. You have made all the right moves from the beginning.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Loved it
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Awesome start -- the only thing missing is pictures
    10,500 gal inground pool with vinyl liner. sand filter, TF100 test kit.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    Like BEENS I'm mainly commenting to subscribe to the post. You already seem to have a grasp of all the required concepts, including the necessary bar tendering skills for maintaining a pool!

    You said you needed to rig something up to vacuum gunk out of the pool. While you are waiting for the kit, now would be a good time to figure that out. A really great addition would be to figure a way with you plumbing to "vacuum to waste", I.e. Having the vacuumed water bypass the filter and just pour out wherever you want the disposed water to go. This has a twofold purpose, it gets the gunk out of your pool and removed the CYA laden water at the same time. I started with CYA above 200 and one of the methods I used to get it to my current low level of 80 is agressivly vacuuming to waste. I cleaned my pool and got rid of the bad water. But, with that being said I did start with a clean pool, not a swamp. I can handle the 80 CYA because I don't need to SLAM.

    Good luck!

    Oh yea, we do like before, during & after SLAM photos!
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    If you have a pool vacuum hose you can use the siphon method to vacuum to waste and get rid of some of the gunk while draining some of your water.

    Quote Originally Posted by madwil
    when I had a Intex, I used a standard vacuum head and hose, and set a syphon over the side instead of using the pump at all- as long as you don't mind watering the grass, and replacing water (same as vacuum to waste!)
    fill hose with water- start at one end, attach to vacuum to weight/hold underwater.
    push hose underwater along the length, so it fills entirely
    when you reach the other end, water should bubble out of it
    Hold both ends under water
    grab the middle of the hose, throw it over the side so a loop is hanging lower than the water level in the pool
    work back the length of the hose away from the vacuum head
    throw the end on the ground where you want the water to drain
    start to vacuum!
    when done, lift vacuum out of water to break suction, and drain to other end so gunk doesn't come back into pool
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    Beens's Avatar
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    Re: To quote the great Mel Brooks: EVERYTHING is sooooo GREEEEEEN !!!!

    +1 to what zea copy/pasted.

    That's how I used to do mine before I found TFP and I too had a swampy mess.
    18' x 48" (42" water depth) Intex Metal Frame 6,700 Gallons
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