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Thread: Electrical help

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    Electrical help

    Hello, My wife decided we needed a 24' pool and BAM were having one installed this week.... The installers are wanting electric ran to the location which I'm a DIY and that's no problem but I'm confused on what all needs done. First off at the location I will be having a pool pump and a electric heat pump and I also need a convenience outlet so I want it there as well.

    Now I opened the pump box and it has a 3 prong plug on the end not a twist lock like I have been reading that is required for pools so that's issue one. Second, is Do i just get a GFCI breaker at the service panel run the wire or use a regular breaker and GFCI at the outlet?

    Next, the Heat pump. It mentions nowhere it needs to have a GFCI do I need one? Also, should I run a 25 amp or 30 amp breaker?

    Last... What would be the best way to wire this? Thanks.....

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    edgy28376's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical help

    In order to answer your question concerning the wiring. One would need to know the distance from the service panel to the location as well as the AMPs that will be drawn. Additionally you will need to account for amp in rush when the motor starts. From my past experience it is cheaper to use GFCI outlets rather than GFCI circuit breakers.
    INTEX 18'x48" Ultra Frame Pool (6700 gallons)
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical help

    The heat pump manual will tell you what size breaker it requires. The heat pump does not require GFCI, but it is recommended. The heat pump must be on a separate circuit from the pool pump.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Electrical help

    The distance is aprox 60' as for the amp in rush when motor starts, I took a pick of the motor label if that helps. It has a regular 3 prong plug am I required to put a twist lock on?

    IMG_20140622_090233.jpg

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    Re: Electrical help

    Per 2008 National Electrical Code for permanent pools (pools capable of more than 42" depth):

    No pump outlet within 6' of the pool. Pump outlets from 6' to 20' must be twist-lock. Pump wiring must be at least #12 AWG, must be separate conductors (no romex), and the ground wire must be insulated. The pump wiring must be in hard conduit. This wiring is dedicated to the pump - nothing else attached. If memory serves, it must also be one size larger than would normally be required. In other words, if your amperage/distance would normally require #12, you must use #10. There must be a disconnect on the pump circuit within 50' and within line of sight from the pump.

    There must be a convenience outlet within 6' and 20' of the pool. This outlet wiring can be UF.

    Conductive pool walls must be bonded to pump motor using #8 bare copper wire at 4 equidistant points. This bonding wire must be buried 18" - 24" outside the pool wall, and buried 4" - 6" deep.

    The pool water must be "bonded" by 9 square inches of metallic surface. Your pool heater will provide this.

    Of course everything must be GFCI, and outlets must be in a cover that is weatherproof when in use (the bubble kind).

    I can't find a definitive answer on the question can the convenience outlet share the same circuit as the heater.

    I *think* all of the wiring can share the same conduit if you want to do that.

    You might want to talk to your local electrical inspector to see if your locality has more requirements.

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    Re: Electrical help

    Call your city and get permit if required, insurance will like that permit, if you don't have it and something happens, coverage will likely be denied

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    Re: Electrical help

    Quote Originally Posted by GomezAddams View Post
    Per 2008 National Electrical Code for permanent pools (pools capable of more than 42" depth):
    Thank you I have read those compliance's but yours is well explained. The funny thing is I went to call the inspector and they said they don't care about how the pool is wired they care about how its installed and on the permit is mentions nothing about wiring so they don't even check that.

    POPPA S, I already have the permit and it is approved im just awaiting a signature actually tomorrow. Thanks!
    Location - Northern Panhandle of West Virginia, 24' Round 54" 15,000 Galllon Azor Above Ground, Pentair 1.5hp 22" Sand Dollar, Aqua Pro500 Heat Pump, Hayward In-Line Tablet Chlorinator, Pool Rover Jr., 16 Mil Ultra Clear Pool Solar Cover,

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    Re: Electrical help

    BTW, I've questioned at least a dozen electricians as to *why* the conductors have to be separate, and why the earth ground has to be insulated. None knew why. One person guessed that it might be due to heat dissipation.

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    Re: Electrical help

    Quote Originally Posted by GomezAddams View Post
    BTW, I've questioned at least a dozen electricians as to *why* the conductors have to be separate, and why the earth ground has to be insulated. None knew why. One person guessed that it might be due to heat dissipation.
    It is not for heat dissipation. There is no "romex" type of wire readily available with an insulated ground wire. Any outdoor installation needs to have the ground insulated. If the outlet for the pump is inside a structure there is no requirement for this. The wire used to feed the outdoor receptacle has to have a rating of THWN on it.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical help

    The ground wire is insulated to precent ground loops. Ideally, the ground wires should all connect to the earth in a single place, at the main panel ground rod(s) (or sub-panel for detached structures with a sub-panel). In outdoor situations a bare ground wire risks creating a separate earth location. Two connections to earth allow ground currents to flow through the ground wires, causing corrosion and eventual failure.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Electrical help

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik View Post
    It is not for heat dissipation. There is no "romex" type of wire readily available with an insulated ground wire. Any outdoor installation needs to have the ground insulated. If the outlet for the pump is inside a structure there is no requirement for this. The wire used to feed the outdoor receptacle has to have a rating of THWN on it.
    The code (at least the version prior to 2008, which I used to have), specifically says that the wires must be separate conductors.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    The ground wire is insulated to precent ground loops. Ideally, the ground wires should all connect to the earth in a single place, at the main panel ground rod(s) (or sub-panel for detached structures with a sub-panel). In outdoor situations a bare ground wire risks creating a separate earth location. Two connections to earth allow ground currents to flow through the ground wires, causing corrosion and eventual failure.
    How would you get a ground loop inside conduit? Non-conductive conduit wouldn't, well, conduct. Steel conduit would be a faraday cage.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Electrical help

    Steel conduit would conduct from a bare ground wire to earth, creating a ground loop. Non-conductive conduit wouldn't be an issue (which doesn't mean that it is allowed).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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