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Thread: Brushing at nite under lites

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Brushing at nite under lites

    Pool looks clear, always has. Earlier in the year we had a lot of wind and I had a lot of desert sand to brush and filter. Not so bad now. But last week I brushed my pool at night with the pool light on. Saw lots of plumes of something when I brushed. Light colored unlike the beige of the sand previously.

    Don't know if I have a problem or not. Wife has been using pumice stone to clean scale due to our high CH area. Anyone else brush at night with light. Not sure if it is pumice stone residue or just bubbles from the brushing. I am running the pump extra time to see if that clears it.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Can you post a full set of test results, including water temperature?

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    FC 15
    CC 0
    CYA 100
    PH 7.5-7.8 hard to measure with FC over 10
    TA 120
    CH probably 300+, I cannot worry about it here as local water is high CH

    Just brushed again at night with lights, seems more like bubbles than residue but maybe that is wishful thinking. Running the pump more often to see if it clears. We notice no other issues

    Do not know water temp but probably mid-80's
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    How did you test for the CYA? Did you do a dilution test?
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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    I cannot worry about it here as local water is high CH
    You cannot change the fill CH but you can certainly get your pH lower to compensate. I would suggest a pH of no higher than 7.5 (Yes, even with the false reading you get from high chlorine)
    Dave S.
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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    What is your water temperature?
    How are you chlorinating?
    What is the fill water TA and calcium hardness?
    You definitely need to check the calcium level in the pool.

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    Wildcat's Avatar
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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    What is your water temperature?
    How are you chlorinating?
    What is the fill water TA and calcium hardness?
    You definitely need to check the calcium level in the pool.
    OK need to go get a thermometer.
    CYA was done with dilution test. The results have been consistent for the last year. Each partial water replacement has led to a drop in CYA.

    Since I was mentioning possibly having something on the bottom and two of the replies seem concerned with CH are you suggesting that high PH caused calcium to precipitate out? Other than some scaling on tile I have no calcium buildup that I can see in the filter or anywhere else. I assume scale at the water line is due to water evaporation.

    Other posts I have read in TFP talk about living with extremely high levels of CH.

    BTW, I have only used bleach for the last 13 months.

    I will post back the TA and CH of fill water and current TA and CH of pool water as soon as I can
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Well, I was wrong on at least one count

    Pool Tap
    PH 7.4 NA
    FC 12 NA
    TA 100 120
    CH 490 100
    Temp 82 NA

    My tap water is not as high of CH as I thought. It must be a matter of concentration over the years by previous owner and before I started my partial drains.
    It is coming down proportionately along with CYA as I drain. At one time CH was well over 650 when CYA was 160 or more (dilution test).
    So as CYA dropped to 100, CH is now 490. Not quite parallel drop but while I do not continue to add anymore CYA I do refill with 100 CH tap water.

    Does this make sense? Knowing that a drain and refill is needed I would like to wait for our yearly rains in 2-3 weeks rather than drain and refill with tap. More environmentally friendly and no CH in rain water as far as I know!

    And seeing this, do you suspect CH residue or the pumice stone residue as a possible cause of the "dust" in the pool? I am running the filter more on this weekend (off peak rates) to try and pick it up. Seem too have made some progress
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    High pH could cause calcium carbonate scale and clouding. If you keep your pH under control, the scaling/clouding can be eliminated. I would recommend a CSI of -0.3 to -0.2 for a while. PoolMath will do the calculation for you if you enter all of your chemistry values including temperature.

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    High pH could cause calcium carbonate scale and clouding. If you keep your pH under control, the scaling/clouding can be eliminated. I would recommend a CSI of -0.3 to -0.2 for a while. PoolMath will do the calculation for you if you enter all of your chemistry values including temperature.
    While you were replying I was in Pool Calculator.

    At 7.4 PH, 490 CH, 82F, TA100 CYA 100 CSI was .03. I played with the PH levels and at 7.8 the CSI went up to .4, trouble area for sure.

    With FC over 10 the other day PH showed 7.8. So I understand keeping it at 7.4 is better, maybe even 7.3.

    To get my CYA to 70 (which I think is good for this hot and always sunny area) I need to drain 30%, to lower CH to 350 I need to replace 36% with fill water at 100. I will see what the rains do for me and then do the rest of the refill this winter. In the meantime I will monitor PH.

    Water has never been cloudy, just that precipitate at the bottom.
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    By keeping your pH in the 7.2 to 7.4 range, your TA will come down. Once your TA is down to about 60, your pH should become stable and then you could allow the pH to go up some because the lower TA will lower the CSI.

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    By keeping your pH in the 7.2 to 7.4 range, your TA will come down. Once your TA is down to about 60, your pH should become stable and then you could allow the pH to go up some because the lower TA will lower the CSI.
    But isn't TA suppose to be 90-120 for a plaster/pebbletec pool?
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    It's the CSI that matters for a plaster pool. There is no specific reason that the TA needs to be above 60. The TA should be where it keeps the pH right.

    To offset the lower TA, you can maintain a higher pH and calcium level to get closer to a 0.0 CSI.

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Well, I understand, but it is confusing as they tell you to maintain TA at the higher level. But I can see where the high CH offsets the need for high TA. I will let the TA drop as I add acid
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    The higher TA would cause constant pH rise, which would cause you to have to continuously add acid to keep the pH down. As you added the acid, the TA would drop, so you would have to add bicarb to raise it back up.

    The bicarb and the higher TA would cause the pH to go back up and it is a constant and pointless battle.

    When the TA is right, the pH pretty much locks in place and requires almost no adjustment.

    As long as the CSI is within the -0.3 to + 0.3 range, you should have no problems. Since you probably have some scaling, I would recommend keeping the CSI at the lower end to help eliminate the scaling/clouding.

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Understood
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    TA down to 90
    PH 7.2
    FC 11
    CYA last measured at 100

    Been running the pump 3-5 hours more per day. Still clouds of whatever when I brush under the lites.
    Bubbles? Dust? Calcium precipitate? Cannot tell if it is a problem or only bubbles. Does anyone else brush their otherwise clear pool at nite under lites? Do you see bubbles?

    Otherwise water is as clear as ever.... Am I
    chasing ghosts?
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Possibly dissolving scale. As long as you maintain the CSI and other parameters within the proper ranges, you should be good. There will always be some dust when you brush, but it shouldn't be much.

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    Re: Brushing at nite under lites

    Slowly getting better.

    FC 12
    CC 0
    TA 70
    CH 510
    CYA 80
    PH 7.0

    Results in CSI of -.45


    Had some rain, over an inch in my part of Tucson. Awesome. Did a partial drain during the storm, hence the CYA drop from over 100
    Lot of wind before, during and after the rain on 7/3.

    Ran the pump around 12-16 hours to clear the pool of small particles.
    Look like some small leaves, pollen and dust. Also still some small dusting when brushing.


    Vacuumed today( I have pop up cleaners which usually do the trick). I rarely vacuum as I cannot keep from losing some prime no matter how I fill the hose ahead of time. I come in thru the skimmer. I mention it because I vacuumed up a penny. I believe it was there quite a while as it was about 50% covered with white deposits. I surmise it was sitting inside the floor drain as it was not visible and would not have picked up deposits overnight.

    Would copper naturally attract calcium to form the deposits?

    As I have brought my TA and PH down is it safe to assume that some of my deposits accumulating as dust on the bottom is calcium now precipitating out?
    10000 Gal, IG Pebbletec, pop up cleaners,Hayward EcoStar VS, 425 sq ft Hayward Cartridge, waterfall feature

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