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Thread: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

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    New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Howdy!
    I bought my new house in November, and after a long cold winter it's time to start dealing with the pool. I've never had one before, although I did get a hot tub installed in December so I've become familiar with water chemistry/testing.

    The pool is about 25k gallons with an overflow spa. It had a heater at one point, but that's broken and bypassed by the prior owners. They also owe me the pump motor so I'm not sure what horsepower it is because it's currently at some motor shop being repaired.

    The big question I have is, should I replace the pool equipment now or try to get the old stuff running. I would rather pay for good stuff that will last and require minimal maintenance, rather than waste time and energy to save a few bucks. Another big question is should I try to do it myself, or find someone to do it for me - unfortunately all of the folks I've called are booked up and/or don't return my calls - I guess it's the busy season.

    The equipment I was considering is:
    - Hayward Ecostar pump because electric rates here are sky high, and it would let me remove the current old timer and use the one built into the pump.
    - Hayward c3030 cartridge filter - oversized so I wouldn't need to clean it often
    - Some sort of salt cell. I'm on well water, so I'd like to avoid building up CYA and needing to drain/refill over time. I also like the idea of not needing to deal with water chem every day.

    Thoughts? I have some pics but the forum doesn't seem to want to let me upload them.

    Thank you!
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Welcome to TFP!!

    The Ecostar would be fine if you your power is that expensive.
    For a 25k pool, I would suggest at least a 350 sqft cartridge ... although with a shorter season, smaller would be fine.
    If you are getting a Hayward pump and filter, you may consider the Hayward SWG ... you may be able to get a 3 year warranty purchasing 3 pieces of equipment at the same time. But, you have to check if this is true if you DIY the install ... some manufacturers are drastically cutting warranty on DIY equipment.

    A SWG does not make a pool maintenance free. There is no such thing. You will still need to be testing at least every other day and likely having to adjust the pH more often because of the SWG.

    I would certainly consider getting what you have up and running ... may be cheap simple repairs required. Post up the pictures.

    To raise your picture storage allotment, you either need to Become a TFP Supporter or follow the How To Post Pictures tutorial.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Hi SKyjohn,
    Welcome to TFP.

    If you are a bit handy theres no reason why you cannot install any of that equipment yourself.
    The power for the pump already exists, so you can use that.
    Replacing the filter is just working with some PVC
    If you add a salt cell, you will want to put that on a timer, so that it doesnt depend solely on the flow switch to be "on or off". Depending on the SWG, one might be built in the controller...just depends on what you get.

    EDIT: What Jason said about DIY and warranty is true. I failed to mention it.

    FOr posting pics.
    Recommend to use a pic hosting site such as photobucket.
    Upload pics to photobucket
    enlarge the pic to full size
    on the right hand side of the screeen is some code
    click on teh IMG code - it automatically copies the code
    come back here and paste the code into your message, and the pic will show up wen you post it.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Thank you!

    Pictures attached:




    The current pump is 120, but there's 240v at the subpanel (pictured).

    Certainly understand that maintenance will be required, but if I can keep it to a minimum, that's worth paying for given my schedule.

    The green pool pic was just after removing the cover and adding 12 gallons of liquid shock. I ordered a new pressure gauge for the old filter since that's missing, but I'm not sure of the state of everything else plumbing-wise - the prior owner didn't do much maintenance on anything at the house which is why I've been assuming I'd need to replace it. The c3030 filter I'm considering is 325 sq ft. Should I consider sand instead, or a bigger cartridge model?
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Yeah,
    it needs some maintenance for sure.
    That will be a really nice pool once you get it cleaned up.

    That sure is a cluge of plumbing eh?

    Definitely go for a new pump, at a minimum, get a 2 speed, it will save you a bunch on electric. I would say put a 220 breaker in the panel and get a 220 pump. Choices of 120V pumps are extremely limited.

    Depending on your electric rates, consider a Variable Speed if your electricity is expensive. Most VS pumps can also run a program on them which is a convenient feature. Love mine!

    Dont know what to say about the filter other than its old. There is plumbing in there that may be damaged (or not). You would have to empty the sand to find out or get everything running and see if it spits sand into the pool or if the multi-port valve works. I dont know of any better way to tell. I dont have a lot of experience with sand filters. Especially old ones. Your call on to replace it or not.. but if it was mine, I would get a new one just for the peace of mind I guess.

    A SWG will certainly be maintenance friendly in the sense that you dont have to manually add chlorine and dont have to worry about your CYA getting to high by using chlorine pucks.

    Is the little blue motor seperate from the main pump? Maybe for running the spa? or maybe a pressure side cleaner? If its for a spa, a VS pump if sized and plumbed properly can be used for both it and the pool and could eliminate that spa pump.

    Picking a type of filter is a personal choice. They all have their own pluses and minuses. Below is some comparison info for you.
    For maintenance purposes and busy schedules though, the larger the filter, the more time you can go between cleanings. There really is no such thing as a filter that is too big, but too small of one can be a real problem.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ter-comparison
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Yeah that plumbing looks like a total mess which is what's making me want to re-plumb it all. I'm not opposed to working with PVC, but I just don't know that much about how the plumbing is supposed to be set up. I figure it'll look a lot nicer if I can remove that old heater and associated junk. I'm thinking I'll try to save both diverter valves and re-plumb after them.

    The blue booster pump is for a pressure side cleaner - a Polaris 380, which I do have, but I don't know if it works (I know the booster pump motor does at least).

    For those curious about the water chemistry:
    pH 7.1
    FC 7.5, CC 1.5
    CH 240
    TA 110
    CYA 100+ (but that test was done a few days ago, need to re-test since I'm not that confident in it)

    The prior owner used pucks, so I'm not surprised that the CYA is high.

    Any thoughts on a good SWG system and how to hook it in with the pump/timer so I can automate the heck out of everything? Hayward seems to offer some automation products which can inject acid (CO2 or HCL) and test/dispense to balance the chemistry, but that might be a bit complex for me to do DIY...

    Thank you for the advice!
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    The SWG is the last thing in line. Pump - Filter - Heater - SWG in that order. For the re-plumb I recommend using Unions wherever you can. It will make replacing individual items easier in the future.
    12000 Gallon IG Plaster built 2/15/2014. Jandy 340 sg ft 127 gpm filter, Jandy 1 HP stealth pump. Circupool RJ-45 SWG (overkill). TF-100 with Speed Stir.

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Now after spending a bunch more time on the forum, I'm thinking of going with a Stenner pump and liquid chlorine feed rather than SWG. I already have one of those in my house for my well water ph neutralizer.
    pros/cons?

    Thanks
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    That is going to be a pretty pool when you are done.

    I have no idea if you should replace or not. That will be up to you once you see what works.

    One of the first things I would do is clean everything up. Take out what you are not going to use-heater, etc. I would then open the filter and check the sand. Is there enough? I would even think about new sand BUT only if you know it works.

    I LOVE my sand filter. With our old pool we had a cartridge. It worked great BUT it was harder to clean/maintain. With the sand filter all you have to do is back wash which is just turn the handle to back wash and turn it on. No taking it apart like with a cartridge one.

    Good luck!

    Ask around the neighborhood to see who has pools and who did their plumping. They might be able to help you find someone to help your test your plumping with you and help you know what does what.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Thanks, that's a great suggestion - I'll definitely need to ask the neighbors since they've got a nice pool that they recently had opened. And yeah, the pool area is really nice looking, I'm very excited to get it all cleaned up and going. I spent a few hours with the leaf net yesterday and it's definitely looking better - now I just need to get that pump/filter going because stirring up the leaves w/the rake isn't helping the water clarity! The prior owner says he'll be bringing me the pump motor tomorrow, so hopefully we'll be off to the races then (assuming I can get the filter going). Definitely need to think about sand vs cartridge now too - so many decisions!
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Got the pump motor and managed to get it put back together and working today! Hooray! I also went to BJs and bought 12 boxes of liquid shock (4 gallons of 12.5% each). Put in 8 gallons and got the fc up to 31 (a little below target given my cya of 100). Already seems like a good improvement but it's still cloudy.

    One problem I did notice is that only one skimmer is working. No suction at all from the other one. Any ideas? I've tried moving the suction side jandy valve and no help. I also stuck a garden hose like 8' down the line from the skimmer and no obstruction but it seems to bottom out there (probably at a 90 or a T fitting.)

    Thanks everyone for the advice!


    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Any reason you are not replacing water to lower the CYA before the SLAM process?

    How many suction lines are at the pump? Do you also have a floor drain?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Yeah I'm on a well (also a new thing for me) and I'm afraid to use too much water at once. I am replacing some water as I backwash, and adding more to replace it. Maybe I'm being too conservative?

    There are two suction lines coming in to the pump and I think there is a floor drain (I know there is one in the spillover spa, and I think there is one in the main pool but I can't see it yet)

    I was thinking of trying either a drain king or shop vac to clear the dead skimmer but I don't want to break a pipe or cause other problems by acting hastily


    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    So only one suction line from the pool and one from the spa. That likely means your skimmers are tied together. What do you see under each skimmer basket?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    There are two holes in the bottom of each skimmer. One goes way down (8+ feet down probing with a garden hose, then it bottoms out), the other one appears to be capped off about 4 inches down (I'm not sure what that one would be for) - maybe it's not even intended to connect to a pipe at all. Both skimmers look the same in this regard, but obviously the one is working well and the other seems completely dead. I put the garden hose down the dead skimmer pipe all the way until it hit bottom (presumably a 90-degree or T-fitting) and ran it, but no debris came up - that's what I had initially assumed was leaves/debris blocking the line, but no evidence of that.

    On the plus side the water keeps getting cleaner w/all of the filtering and SLAM.
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    The skimmers are likely plumbed together. You would need a skimmer float diverter to force suction from the further skimmer.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    I blocked the "good" skimmer and that seems to completely block off the pump (I think because the floor drains are still clogged with leaves) - so I'm suspicious that there's something blocking the pipe somewhere to that second skimmer. I wonder if sand got in the pipe from a broken lateral (I can't get the top off the filter to tell - ahh the joys of having old crappy equipment!). I figure I'll try a drain king and see if I can push whatever it is through - is that a bad idea?
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    You can not just block the suction hole to the pump. If you have a floor drain, there is a chance that it is plumbed to the bottom of one skimmer and then the other hole from that skimmer is plumbed to one of the holes in the other skimmer and then the 2nd hole in skimmer 2 is plumbed to the pump.

    If you dont have a floor drain. Then one hole in the far skimmer could be capped and the other hole plumbed to the near skimmer and the 2nd hole from that plumbed to the pump. You would need a float diverter to force some of the suction to the 2nd skimmer. Did you google skimmer float diverter to see what I am talking about?

    You could try to force water into the holes with something like a drain king or a towel around the hose and see if the water comes up in the other skimmer.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Ahh, now I understand - I'll try doing that. I need to go get a smaller drain king to fit into the skimmer line.
    One suggestion I saw from YouTube was to try clearing the suction line backwards (from the pump side), which I will also try.
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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    Re: New (to me) pool - need equipment advice

    Unfortunately that didn't help w/the skimmer - it seems dead and not connected to the other one. I tried the drain king and it seemed to send some water somewhere, but I couldn't find it - my only guess is maybe into the main drain which I can't see (it's the skimmer near the deep end where the main drain is).

    Still SLAM, had the FC up to 45 yesterday, it was 40 today (target is 39 due to 100 CYA). I've been filtering constantly and backwashing when the filter pressure rises. Interesting tidbit - I have a energy monitor that lets me see the power draw from each of my circuits and I noticed that I can tell by the current draw (which actually goes down, somewhat counter intuitively) when the filter pressure is up.

    One other question - I added some DE to my sand filter (via skimmer) in hopes of speeding up the filtering process, and i noticed some coming out of the return jets. Not a huge cloud, but definitely visible flow like diluted milk. Broken lateral? I saw an ad on Craigslist for a 1yr old cartridge filter (3040 model) for $250 and am thinking of picking it up to replace the old triton sand filter I have, because I can't even get the lid off, and a replacement lid only seems to cost about $100!
    23,000 gal plaster pool w/overflow spa
    Hayward EcoStar pump
    Hayward c4030 425 sq. ft. cartridge filter

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