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Thread: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommendation

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    Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommendation

    Hey guys, just piecing together everything for a new above ground pool installation.

    The place we bought a few years ago used to have an in-ground pool that was filled in just days before looking at the home. Sucks for us, but with 5 kids, and all of them akin to sea-monkeys, we need a pool. I setup a 15ft x 42" deep easy-set pool last summer on the old pools "deep end" to check on settling and it was not an issue, so we are moving ahead with a big paver patio and a 27ft permanently installed above ground pool. The build thread is here: Build Thread.

    So, I want to reuse the equipment pad and associated electrical on the back of the garage. I plan on running two 2" PVC lines and one 3/4" PVC line in-ground from the equipment pad out to about where the skimmer and return would be located. distance on-ground is about 73ft. I plan on using the 3/4" line for a dedicated booster pump for an automated pool cleaner. I already have electrical run for 240v feeds via timers for both a pool pump and a pool vac, so I should be good there.

    To start with I have a Sta-Rite sand filter, a T-210WF model that holds 200lbs of sand. I checked the specs and it seems to be sized properly for a 27ft x 54" deep pool that holds almost 20k gallons.

    My question is, what size pump do I need?

    Best I can figure out the head I am looking at might be around 85-92ft?

    Based on this info, what is the best kind of pump to look at, an in-ground pool pump, or still an above-ground pool pump?

    Also, should I stay with this filter, or use it to start with, and eventually replace it with something better, or does the pump I go with dictate a different (size/larger, cartridge or DE) filter to begin with?

    I am in SE Wisconsin, so the pool would be useable only 3-4 months a year and I do plan on going with solar panels and possibly a natural gas heater to extend the usable pool time. We also have a 10-person hot tub, so the kids can still get wet when it gets colder out, but realistically we get some hot weeks out into late September and can even get hot weeks in May some years, so maximizing the usability is a big concern. I think getting the pool up to temp after opening and keeping it at a good temp longer before closing are the big concerns given the locale.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    Any reason not to dig up the old pool? There are 2 threads currently doing just that right now on the forum.

    I would recommend not using a booster-required pressure cleaner ... very inefficient since you need to be running 2 pumps whenever you are cleaning.

    For a 20k pool, I would recommend at least a 26" diameter sand filter ... likely bigger than what you mentioned, but the smaller one will work.

    It is not trivial to calculate the head loss and I doubt you are anywhere near 90feet.

    Since the pump is below the water level still you could use an above ground pump, but they are typically a lower flow rate and designed for near the pool. So, I would suggest going with a 1HP 2-speed in-ground pump like the Superflo which should be fine for you application. You could always up-size the pipe runs to 2.5" to lower the head loss and increase flow. You could still use 2" on the pad though.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    Well, considering they hit the power mains when they pulled the pool I am assuming they pulled in the walls and everything associated. I did place a phone call with the company that pulled the pool, so I will know either way here shortly.

    See, I thought I was going bigger by going even 2" piping... Going to 2.5" piping is no big deal cost-wise.

    Since I am "new" to the whole pool thing, are there plenty of pool cleaners that hookup to the skimmer that work just as well as a dedicated booster-fed cleaner?

    My point is, I only want to do this once, so if I end up putting in piping, I don't mind running a dedicated cleaner line since I have all the electrical setup for it and it is basically such low-cost it doesn't matter.

    So, I tried reading through Hydraulics 101, and if I am basically at the same elevation with a slight incline to the pump and away, what is the head loss? It mentions virtually nothing about how to calculate head loss, just describes it function, which I already have... So, given 73ft of run to and from the pump has to equate to a given amount of head loss. Same with the pump itself. So either is is really low (like 16-24 ft using one calc) or really high like I mentioned. If it is really low, with only one feed and one return, then basically a 1hp to 1.5hp is ideal. And if that *IS* the case, then why would anyone without 3-4 feeds and 3-4 returns ever need anything more than a 1.5HP pump?

    My point being, I don't want to oversize greatly, but I don't want to undersize at all.

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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    Aww you are right, sounds like they demo'd the whole pool. Is the coping still outlining the pool? If not They probably took it all under and then put sod over it. Too bad.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    Oh, I thought they just filled it with dirt, but sounds like they actually yanked something out (fiberglass pool?).

    The electric robots seem to be where the market is going and the pressure side cleaners are dropping off. There are still plenty of suction cleaners, ThePoolCleaner is the one I would get. That type of cleaner just puts all the junk in your filter which may or may not be more work than cleaning a pressure side or robot bag/cartridge.

    If you want to run a dedicated cleaner line, then make it 2" as well so that it could be either a pressure or suction line. If you go very small, then you are stuck with pressure cleaner.

    Well, the truth is almost every pool has a pump that is bigger than they need. The industry has historically used filter that are too small and pumps that are too big. With the rising power costs, people are realizing that they do not need large pumps and are switching to 2-speed or VS pump to run at very low flow rates. In fact single speed pumps are not allowed at all in a few states any more.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    Yeah, no coping at all... It had a concrete deck around it and they threw that in the hole as well per the neighbors...

    Actually, they filled it with the pool parts, then large to smaller aggregates... so I should have a fairly solid base for an above ground pool... sure as **** can't dig that stuff out by hand, I would need to excavate it with heavy equipment...

    I was thinking about making the cleaner line 2" as well, it really doesn't matter, does it?

    I just have a ton of extra 3/4" line sitting around from when I moved the hot tub in... figured I might as well use it...

    Same with a bunch of 3" schedule 40 PVC that was used for the move... any problem using 3" and reducers above grade???

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Doing a new AG pool install but plumbing in-ground... Need pump/filter recommenda

    If the 3" is free, I do not think there is any problem using it and reduce as required.
    I will admit that I am not sure if the large pipe would affect how a pressure side cleaner works ... I don't think it should matter though.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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