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Thread: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

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    10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    As the title says, we have had this house/pool for just a bit over ten years and the thing has literally been the bane of my existence. So much so that I didn't even try to open it last summer and ended up letting it go to **** over the past year.

    I stumbled upon this site about a week ago and have decided to give this method a chance.

    Steps I took before reading about TFP:

    • Scooped out and vacuumed most of the debris (dead yucky stuff) from the pool.
    • Added a lot of Clorox brand shock (Trichloro-s-triazinetrione) and got the pool back from a deep forest green into the lighter milky green it is now.



    Day One of the TFP Method


    After I read about TFP:

    Ordered the Taylor 2006 kit from Amazon and got these results.

    Hardness: 900 (expected as we have very hard water here)
    Total Chlorine: 1
    Free Chlorine: 0-0.5
    PH: 6.2 (need to get this up)
    Alkalinity: 60
    CYA: 120 (also expected as I have been using pucks for years)

    So as I understand it, First orders of business are to bring down the CYA and to balance the PH.

    Plan right now is to pump out and replace about 6000 gallons to get the CYA into the 70-80 range (a bit high but needed I think for dealing with the strong southeast Texas sun) and then get the PH back in line. After that comes the bleach.

    Normally I would use soda ash for raising the PH but wanted to make sure that wasn't a TFP "no-no" before picking up the supplies.

    So before I head out to the store, What is my shopping list?

    Right now I would guess, Soda Ash and at least 20 gallons of bleach. Yes/no?
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Or 20 Mule team borax to raise your pH. Might be a less expensive option.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Well it's about time you got here! Welcome to TFP

    Nix the soda ash and instead use borax to raise pH. 20 gallons of bleach/liquid chlorine is a good start.

    I suggest you pick up a gallon of muriatic acid - although you do not need it now, I suspect you will.

    Yep, the drain/refill dance is needed to dump/lower CYA and CH.

    What is the CH of your fill water?

    Have you found PoolMath calculator yet?

    btw, great first post
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Well it's about time you got here! Welcome to TFP

    Nix the soda ash and instead use borax to raise pH. 20 gallons of bleach/liquid chlorine is a good start.
    Borax, eh? Suggestions of where to get it? Lowes maybe?

    I suggest you pick up a gallon of muriatic acid - although you do not need it now, I suspect you will.
    That I already have.

    Yep, the drain/refill dance is needed to dump/lower CYA and CH.
    City of Houston Water Dept. is going to love me this month..

    What is the CH of your fill water?
    You know, I never thought to check that before.. Looks to be about 700-750.

    Have you found PoolMath calculator yet?
    Yep, it's where I got the number for bringing the CYA down.

    btw, great first post
    Thanks
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    wally world, k mart, grocery store, target, etc......in the laundry aisle
    Attached Images Attached Images
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Alright then.. Off to the store.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    ... and if you are going the drain and fill route to pull down the CYA (and this may seem obvious) do the drain THEN add chemistry.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Quote Originally Posted by karmabiker View Post
    ... and if you are going the drain and fill route to pull down the CYA (and this may seem obvious) do the drain THEN add chemistry.
    MASSIVE +1 to this. Drain a significant amount of water off to get the CYA down, then refill and retest. CYA isn't going to get any better w/o losing some of that water. I believe pool math has a way to show you how much you'd need to drain. CYA is easy to add, so I'd go the "more is more" route.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    What part of Houston are you in?

    I'm in the Oak Forest/Garden Oaks area.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Also, what is the TA & pH of your fill water?



    note to self: keep an eye on the Texans we're getting lotsa' them around here .......
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    ~ I wasn't planning to add Chemicals to the pool until later tonight after the water has been drained and re-filled.

    ~ I am on the far west side of Houston near Katy TX.

    Results of the fill water:

    PH is 7.8 (High end of normal)
    TA is 230 (High)

    I found gallon jugs of unscented, Clorox "concentrate" (8.25%) at Sam's for $8.98 per three pack so I grabbed 15 gallons of that figuring that 15 gallons of 8.25 roughly equals 20 gallons of 6% solution.

    Looked all over for Borax at Sam's, Walmart, Lowes and could only find it in the pesticide sections at an absurd price per pound. Finally found the "20 Mule" boxes at Target so I grabbed six boxes (30 pounds) there.

    Currently draining off roughly 21" of water out of the pool as my calculations put that at close to 6000 gallons.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    I do not mean to hijack at all, but...if you have to drain a lot of water anyway, why not just drain the whole thing and fill it up with non-gross water? I know some older pools aren't supposed to be empty becuase of potential collapse of the wall, but a lot of pools are steel rebar reinforced concrete.
    10,500 gal IG, Topaz Pebble, auto-level
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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeChris View Post
    I do not mean to hijack at all, but...if you have to drain a lot of water anyway, why not just drain the whole thing and fill it up with non-gross water? I know some older pools aren't supposed to be empty becuase of potential collapse of the wall, but a lot of pools are steel rebar reinforced concrete.
    Three reasons:

    1. Money ~ the amount of money I will spend on water to refill one third of the pool is basically only one third of what I would spend to re-fill the whole thing. 6000 gallons will run my water bill up about $80, 18,000 would be $240.

    2. This is a 30 year old, gunite/plaster pool that I have no idea what the internal construction is like and I would rather not chance it cracking/shifting due to ground pressure from taking all of the water out of it. At least not until I am ready to break down and have the thing remodeled/replastered in another year or two.

    3. Experience. If I can get the pool back from a literal swamp to a clear, sparkly pool again then hopefully I will have dealt with basically the worst that the pool can devolve to and will have the knowledge and experience going forward to be able to both maintain as well as correct any future troubles that Mother Nature tries to throw into it.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    To add a 4th - the water table in Houston is quite high. There is a very real chance of "floating" an empty pool.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Adding the replacement water back in now.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    With your fill water, have you thought about setting up a rainwater catchment to help dilute?

    Richard320 (and I think karmabiker, too) both do this because of high CH.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Ohhhhh you're going to love the TFPC way!!!



    Welcome to TFP!!!

    P.S. Stop using those pucks!!!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Got the water back into the pool: Latest readings are:

    TH: 900
    TC: 0
    FC: 0
    PH: 7.0
    TA: 80
    CYA: 80-85 (hard to read this morning)

    Just added a box of Borax to the pool and will recheck the PH in an hour.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    Good deal - A bit high on the CYA but manageable. I'm at 50 and it's a very happy place.

    Once you get that pH to 7.2 its time to get rocking with the SLAM. Per my calcs on pool math you are looking at 3.5 Jugs of 8.25 bleach to start. Test and dose early and often. I can't wait for the pictures.

    Rainwater harvesting is a great way to replace water without running the bill up. I just stay on the high side of CL when I do it.

    See this thread: Rainwater Harvesting
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
    Pool School -- Pool Math -- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: 10 years into it, and just now trying TFP Method to fix the swamp

    My thoughts on the CYA are twofold.

    First, the sun here is brutal so starting on the high side isn't necessarily the worst thing and secondly with all of the back washing that will be required to get the pool back to clear I will probably lose/replace at least another 1500-2000 gallons of water which should lower that number a bit more over the next week or so. (probably end up closer to 70 when all is said and done)

    I actually already have a rainwater catch setup similar to yours that I put in years ago. We just haven't had any rain to speak of here in the past week or so and not much chance for it today so I just went ahead and opened the the pool's water line to get it back up to level last night.
    30 year old, 17,000 gallon pool (w/spa), IG, Plaster, Pentair Triton II TR-100 600#Sand Filter, Pentair Superflo 340043 1.5 Hp pump

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