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Thread: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, leak?

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    Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, leak?

    I have a Hayward Super Pump that's maybe 5-7 years old. It didn't sound so bad last year, but after this really cold winter (which damaged various pipes around my house), it sounds rough now and has small amounts of air trickling in the return pipes of the pool since opening it (as well as air/cavitation in the forward area of the pump.)

    So after reading a bit, I opened it up to check for debris in the impeller area and found basically none. Impeller and diffuser are in good shape.

    The shaft spins freely about 90% of the time, but does seem to catch/slow down a bit every so often, like maybe the bearings aren't so good.

    So since I put it back together, I noticed a leak under the impeller region. I can't be certain it wasn't there before because the cement it sets on was wet when I first noticed the smoke and smell. Maybe the leak was there all along or maybe I mucked it up.

    So what is the diagnosis, and what should I do that isn't too hard or too expensive? Is it the bearings, the seal, and do you think the motor is OK enough to refurb it (ie. is the sound and smoke coming from the bearings and the added stress to the motor) or should I just get the whole back half replaced?

    Need to order something soon before it all goes to pot.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Quick add on question: The pump model is C48K2N134B1 with a 56J frame. What is the current 1 HP replacement motor for that (230V) (is it the UST1102 AO Smith?) and what seal model do I need to get? I'm thinking it's going to be easiest just to get those two parts. If you know a place that sells them cheaply with decent shipping prices, let me know too. Thanks for reading.

    (asking above question after searching and getting conflicting advice, some say UST1102 is for C48L2N134B1, but maybe it's for the C48K2N134B1 model too. And I'm not sure if the frame number matters).




    Quote Originally Posted by eRichard View Post
    I have a Hayward Super Pump that's maybe 5-7 years old. It didn't sound so bad last year, but after this really cold winter (which damaged various pipes around my house), it sounds rough now and has small amounts of air trickling in the return pipes of the pool since opening it (as well as air/cavitation in the forward area of the pump.)

    So after reading a bit, I opened it up to check for debris in the impeller area and found basically none. Impeller and diffuser are in good shape.

    The shaft spins freely about 90% of the time, but does seem to catch/slow down a bit every so often, like maybe the bearings aren't so good.

    So since I put it back together, I noticed a leak under the impeller region. I can't be certain it wasn't there before because the cement it sets on was wet when I first noticed the smoke and smell. Maybe the leak was there all along or maybe I mucked it up.

    So what is the diagnosis, and what should I do that isn't too hard or too expensive? Is it the bearings, the seal, and do you think the motor is OK enough to refurb it (ie. is the sound and smoke coming from the bearings and the added stress to the motor) or should I just get the whole back half replaced?

    Need to order something soon before it all goes to pot.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    The pump model is C48K2N134B1 with a 56J frame.
    That's not a SuperPump model number. All SuperPumps start with SP26.......

    Also, SuperPump's are mostly up rated so assuming that you have an SP2607x10, then you want the STS1072RV1 (two speed). The Single speed is a UCT1072 but I would upgrade to a two speed. What is the voltage of your current pump setup?

    As for a seal kit, the Go-Kit is here: http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-R-6103.../dp/B00170TER2
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    edited

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    edited

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    "That's not a SuperPump model number. All SuperPumps start with SP26...…."

    [posted a couple times but doesn't show up]

    The super pump is labeled model C48K2N134B1 on the casing, but down below, by itself, there is the number SP1607Z1M, so I still need to know if the UST1102 motor is the right replacement. Maybe let me know the 2 speed motor model I need so I can investigate. Pool is 40K gal pool. Do they make a 1 hp 2 speed that fits mine. Would be nice not to have to change the impeller and diffuser.

    I was going to stick with 1 speed motor for simplicity, but if I don't have to put in another breaker and another electrical line, I'd consider a 2 speed. Don't know how it installs exactly. Is the toggle switch hard to do for the two speed?

    I have a fair amount of air (not cavitation) in the basket region of the pump. I tried turning off the skimmer lines one at a time to see if one was leaking, but the air didn't change. Hopefully I don't have leaks in both (also, not from basket area lid, which is tight and clean). Could it be from the motor/seal/etc. not working properly, not priming and clearing the air? I'm just hoping if I replace the motor and seal and gaskets that that air will clear (because I don't want to have to go after leaking underground skimmer pipes). Sometimes the water leak near the impeller is rather large, sometimes not, in terms of water spewing out.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Maybe this is the 2 speed version replacement:
    A.O. Smith STS1102RV1 56J C-Flange 1 or 1/8 HP Dual Speed Full Rated Pool Filter Motor, 7.0/2.3A 230V

    If I just want a toggle switch for hi-lo, what's the easiest way to do it, near the breaker panel or near the pump? Suggestions for easy switch install welcome.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Well, looking more deeply, maybe this is what I need: B2975T since it has the timer and 2 speed built together. Need to go check my cradle for this motor to see if it adapts to the wider circumference tomorrow.

    If no one objects, I'll order it tomorrow.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Both of those numbers are the motor number not the pump number. But the SP1607Z1M is a full rated 3/4 HP motor. That is equivalent to a 1 HP up rated motor. Is there a service factor listed on the motor label?

    Keep in mind that that the B2975 is a larger diameter motor than what you have right now so the motor support would need to be replaced or modified. It can be done but I just wanted to make sure you knew that. It is also a larger motor than what you need. That is a 1 HP full rated motor and you need a 1 HP up rated motor. The B2973 is the correct size but it is a 115v. If you have 230v currently wired, then you can use the B2975 instead.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Got it on the model.

    SF is 1.1 on the label. I assume that's the service factor.

    I checked the the support and it is not one of those modular ones where you can take off the support piece. Not sure how that support is attached to the housing of the pump, but if it is screwed on from below, then it's a problem. Maybe I could use a jigsaw or reciprocating saw to carve it down lower and wider. I could buy a replacement support, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to exchange on the housing. Maybe there's a thread on that somewhere here. It is wired for 230, so I'd like that model.

    As for sizing, keep in mind it is a 40K gal pool, although I realize what you're saying about uprating. So do a full rated 1HP and an uprated 1HP use the same impeller (hopefully)?

    Thanks very much for taking the time to help me out.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Quote Originally Posted by eRichard View Post
    As for sizing, keep in mind it is a 40K gal pool, although I realize what you're saying about uprating. So do a full rated 1HP and an uprated 1HP use the same impeller (hopefully)?
    No the impellers are different. But pool Size as nothing to do with the up rated vs full rated. In fact, pools size has little to do with pump sizing anyway.

    An 1 HP up rated motor is the same as a 3/4 HP full rated motor and both will use the same impeller. You have a 1 HP up rated motor. The STS1072RV1 is the correct diameter and the correct size for the impeller in your pump.

    However, you can use the B2975T motor but it is oversized for the pump head but that doesn't matter much. You can use a larger motor on a smaller impeller but not visa verse. The bigger issue is the diameter of the motor. The motor mount is pretty easy to replace.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX260.../dp/B004VTGRCG
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    If there were an end plate hi-lo switch available for the 3/4 HP one you suggest, I'd probably get it, but I didn't see one.

    The mounting foot looks like it'd be easy to install if the pump were free from the plumbing/piping, but mine is not going to get free without a lot of trouble. From the parts diagram ( http://www.prolinedist.com/wp-conten.../h_w_super.pdf ), it looks like there's a couple screws that screw in from beneath the housing area. Can't get there from here.

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Follow up. Bought AO Smith B975T pump to replace the Super Pump, installed today, all is well. Air is gone from basket area, no leak, quiet running. Not too hard to do, but took maybe 2 hours including cutting down the motor support, removing motor, putting in new seal and gaskets, wiring,reading manual, then programming, cleaning up. So not too bad.

    Bought pump from Inyo Pool, used a $10 dollar off coupon (like them on Facebook for coupon code) for a total of $299 for the pump and got a gokit3 off ebay for maybe $15.

    Hot wires go on terminal 1 and 2 (that's what I did, though not described in manual, see diagram on pump) and of course green grounding goes to green screw. There is a another terminal which is one more than the Super Pump which was not used.

    With regards to the pump support (that black plastic piece under the pump), mine was the older style which is fixed in height. So I measured the diameter of the new pump, which was roughly 7 inches, and the old pump, which was roughly 5.5 inches. This difference in diameter is then 1.5 inches or about .75 inches difference in radius. So the arc of the bottom piece must be cut back 3/4 inch along the arc. Although I considered using the dremel as others had done, it seemed like a lot of plastic to carve away with the little grinder tool I have, so I used a small hand saw. First, mark 3/4 down on either end and then 3/4" down in the middle (used a gray permanent marker). You could connect these with a broad arc parallel to the original arc, and I did this. But basically, I hand sawed on either side from the mark to the center mark, so it ended up being a straight cut rather than an arc. I figured I could dremel out an arc from there, but in the end, it was close enough that I just skipped the dremel work. It cuts very easily and fast with hand saw…surprisingly easy to do. I wired up the motor separately from that base (easier to see for me) and then set it down on the base to screw it up. It lined up perfectly with the holes. I was surprised how perfect the alignment was.

    The timer gets slightly in the way of the top two holes, so you need a 9/16" wrench in addition to a ratchet wrench, unlike the super pump.

    There is a battery backup in the timer, just so you know, so it will retain the time of day and settings in a power outage and importantly, when the other timer turns off the electricity to the pump overall. I'm timing the pump off my old mechanical type timer and putting the digital timer on the B975T into manual mode for low speed 24 hours a day. I run the mechanical timer for 12 hours. This way if power goes off, the polaris auxiliary pump will still be in sync with the main motor (because aux. pump uses a mechanical type timer also, not digital, and will turn off the same amount of time as the other mechanical timer). The rep at Inyo pool wasn't sure this would work, but it does (so far as I can tell). Will manually up to high speed for backwash when necessary. Runs nice and quiet. Pressures obviously lower for DE filter gauge.

    Thanks very much Mas985.

    (other keyword B2975T)

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    Replaced 1HP Super Pump motor with 2 speed B975T by A.O. Smith, experience

    reposting my followup experience in a separate post here because the original post was asking diagnosis questions mainly.

    Topics merged. Please keep everything relating to one problem/project together in one place and never post the same thing in more than one place. JasonLion

    Bought AO Smith B975T pump to replace the Super Pump, installed today, all is well. Air is gone from basket area, no leak, quiet running. Not too hard to do, but took maybe 2 hours including cutting down the motor support, removing motor, putting in new seal and gaskets, wiring,reading manual, then programming, cleaning up. So not too bad.

    Bought pump from Inyo Pool, used a $10 dollar off coupon (like them on Facebook for coupon code) for a total of $299 for the pump and got a gokit3 off ebay for maybe $15.

    Hot wires for 230V installation go on terminal 1 and 2 (that's what I did, though not described in manual, see diagram on pump) and of course green grounding goes to green screw. There is a another terminal which is one more than the Super Pump which was not used. (If uncertain, disclaimer is get an electrician.)

    With regards to the pump support (that black plastic piece under the pump), mine was the older style which is fixed in height (on the end support area). So I measured the diameter of the new pump, which was roughly 7 inches, and the old pump, which was roughly 5.5 inches. This difference in diameter is then 1.5 inches or about .75 inches difference in radius. So the arc of the bottom piece must be cut back 3/4 inch along the arc. Although I considered using the dremel as others had done, it seemed like a lot of plastic to carve away with the little grinder tool I have, so I used a small hand saw. First, mark 3/4 down on either end and then 3/4" down in the middle (used a gray permanent marker). You could connect these with a broad arc parallel to the original arc, and I did this. But basically, I hand sawed on either side from the mark to the center mark, so it ended up being two straight cuts forming a slight "V" shape rather than an arc. I figured I could dremel out an arc from there, but in the end, it was close enough that I just skipped the dremel work. It cuts very easily and fast with a hand saw…surprisingly easy to do. I wired up the motor separately from that base (easier to see for me) and then set it down on the base to screw it up. It lined up perfectly with the holes. I was surprised how perfect the alignment was.

    The timer gets slightly in the way of the top two holes, so you need a 9/16" wrench in addition to a ratchet wrench, unlike the super pump.

    There is a battery backup in the timer, just so you know, so it will retain the time of day and settings in a power outage and importantly, when the other timer turns off the electricity to the pump overall. I'm timing the pump off my old mechanical type timer and putting the digital timer on the B975T into manual mode for low speed 24 hours a day. I run the mechanical timer for 12 hours. This way if power goes off, the polaris auxiliary pump will still be in sync with the main motor (because aux. pump uses a mechanical type timer also, not digital, and will turn off the same amount of time as the other mechanical timer). The rep at Inyo pool wasn't sure this would work, but it does (so far as I can tell). Will manually up to high speed for backwash when necessary. Runs nice and quiet. Pressures obviously lower for DE filter gauge.

    Thanks very much Mas985.

    (other keyword B2975T)

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    Re: Rough sounding pump, burn smell, cavitation/air in lines, impeller/diff clear, le

    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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