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Thread: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

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    Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Long story short, we are replacing the liner and adding SWG to a pool that came with the house we just bought. We are also getting a Tristar VS pump. Turns out now the existing Hayward 4820 DE filter with multiport is shot.

    So which filter should we go with?

    The pool company doing all the original work (liner change/new pump/SWG and a slide) recommended:

    Hayward C7030, a quad cartridge for the easier maintenance, (which is $1400 with any replumbing and labor, but not including any parts) or if I wanted to stick with DE, then they recommended Hayward DE7220 (for $1325, including labor, no parts).

    We did have a pool in our last house, semi-inground, 18x32 with a SWG and a Hayward perflex bump DE filter, so I do know about the backwashing and we used aquaperl. But the pool here is 3x the size (gallons-wise) as my last pool! I am afraid to switch to cartridge for fear that this huge pool won't be clear enough. I did some internet research and see that Pentair makes a hybrid.... Pentair Quad DE 100 filter. Does this seem like a better choice? Pool company only does Hayward, so they didn't have an opinion on the Pentair, they could get it for me (they didn't detail the cost), but I'll assume it is in the same $1300/$1400 range as the Hayward choices.

    I'm in such a dilemma over the "easier" maintenance vs. the better filtration.....help!

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    I would go with the biggest DE filter you can get if you want to stay with DE. I personally love DE filters.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    I am very happy with a cartridge filter, so I would vote for the Hayward C7030. However, as far as I know I have never been in a pool that had a DE filter, so I may not know what I am missing. The Pentair Quad DE 100 does have more filtration area than the Hayward DE7220, so that would push me in that direction if you really wanted DE. If you do get the Pentair Quad DE make sure you get a backwash valve.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    does the c7030 have 8 cartridges in it??
    I think I am leaning toward the DE7220.
    the multiport that I currently have is a SP710xR50. I believe it is functioning properly.



    also, do you think I should ipgrade to the ecostar vs pump ($200 to upgrade) over the tristar vs pump?

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Hi Cathi the c7030 has 4 cartridges. I have a similar filter and the cartridges take a little longer to clean than I originally thought, probably 30 to 45 minutes to take them out clean them and put the filter back together. Do you know what size plumbing you currently have? The valve number you referenced is for 1.5 inch plumbing and this may be problematic for either of the variable speed pumps you're looking at. Ideally if you could be at 2 inch or even 2-1/2 inch plumbing that would be ideal .


    Thank You
    Patrick
    www.inyopools.com

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    yes patrick3229, I believe the piping is 1.5"......
    Tri-level, IG vinyl, 18'x42' with 18'x20' "L", 58,000 gallons. Loop-loc liner, SWG Hayward AquaPlus PL-4 with (2) 40k cells, Inter-Fab Adrenaline left turn slide. Hayward Tristar VS, Hayward C7030 (8 cartridges!). Novice pool owner!

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Since you are replacing all the equipment in the pad, perhaps you should think about redoing the pad piping in 2". That is what I did even though the pipes back to the pool were 1.5".


    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Cathi,

    I would consider upgrading as much of the pipe as possible to 2" or 2.5" the reason being is that 1.5" pipe can physically only handle 60 gallons per minute through it (GPM) and the variable speed pumps at the high speed will probably be close to 100 Gallons per minute. The smaller pipe will not supply enough water to pump at the higher speeds. 2" pipe can handle 100 GPM's and 2.5" pipe can handle 140 GPM's. To determine if you should go with the TriStar or Ecostar pump could you answer the following questions:

    1. Approximately how many feet of pipe run from your pool pump to the main drain at the bottom of your pool?

    2. Approximately how many feet of pipe run from your pool pump to the skimmer at the side of your pool? (If you have two skimmers please provide the distance to both)

    3. Will this pump be powering anything else besides the pool (i.e. spa jets, water falls, water features, etc..)

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Hi Cathi,

    I'm on Long Island too, and my pool is usually open from the middle of May to the end of September. It's not as big as yours at 41,000 gallons. I have a Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 420 cartridge filter. If you're looking for low maintenance, cartridge filters are the way to go. Before I got a mesh loop loc winter cover, the filter cartridges only needed to be cleaned at the end of the season. Since my mesh cover, I clean the cartridges after my initial cleanup, about a week or two after opening, then only at the end of the season.

    My water is crystal clear and people always comment on the clarity. I have never regretted my decision to choose a cartridge filter over a DE filter. I help my dad maintain his 18x36 inground vinyl pool, he has a DE filter. I hate back washing and adding DE to that thing. Cleaning it is not my favorite chore. I honestly don't see a difference in the clarity of the water in our pools.

    Not a knock against DE, cartridges are just easier. Just make sure if you get the cartridge filter to have a waste line plumbed inm so you can vacuum to waste. Good luck.

    Tom
    In gound vinyl L, ~41,000 gallons, Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 420 cartridge filtter, Pentair 2 speed WhisperFlo pump

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    thank you all for such great feedback!

    will I need a new multiport if I change the piping from 1.5" to 2"/2.5"?

    the main drain is at the bottom of the deep end, correct? the pool is a deep, dark green right now- (waiting to drain it and get the new liner installed)- so I can't see the bottom anywhere. If it is where I think it is, my estimate is that the main drain is approx. 50' from the pool equipment and underneath the paver patio (and then 8' + down, of course) .

    I believe there are 2 skimmers and they are both also at the deep end, so I'd estimate the closer one at 60/65 feet from the pool equipment and the further one at 65/70 feet and they are also both run under the paver patio. wait, does that make sense?

    I don't have any water features- just the Adrenaline slide (to be installed). Maybe a hot tub....someday....but honestly, it's doubtful.

    Thanks Tom for letting me know about your filter. I did tell the pool company I'd take the DE filter, but they have both in stock and I'm sure it will be ok to change if I decide to.
    Tri-level, IG vinyl, 18'x42' with 18'x20' "L", 58,000 gallons. Loop-loc liner, SWG Hayward AquaPlus PL-4 with (2) 40k cells, Inter-Fab Adrenaline left turn slide. Hayward Tristar VS, Hayward C7030 (8 cartridges!). Novice pool owner!

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    Hi Cathi,

    Typically you would want a pump which could turn your pool over in an 8 hr. time period on the high speed, so with a 50,000 gallon pool this would mean you would require a pump which could output 105 GPM's on the high speed. The Ecostar can output roughly 150 GPM's on the high speed based on the information you provided and the Tristar would output 100 GPM's.

    The next thing we get into would be the plumbing size as 1.5" can handle 60 GPM's, 2" can handle 100 GPM's and 2.5" can handle 140 GPM's. Lastly you want to make sure the filter you select can handle the output of the pump you select, the DE7220 DE Filter can handle 144 GPM's and the C7030 can handle 150 GPM's.

    With all of this being said I would do the following if this were my pool, I would ......

    Upgrade as much of the pipe as possible to 2.5" pipe, I would go with the cartridge filter as it is much easier to maintain and the clarity between cartridge and DE is not that signifigant and I would be on the fence between the Tristar and Ecostar pump. If you are thinking about adding a spa and/or if you are going to upgrade to 2.5" plumbing then I would go with the EcoStar and if you are going to stay with 1.5" plumbing or just going up to 2" and not 2.5" then I would go with the Tristar pump.

    I hope all of that made sense and was not too confusing

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    You can keep your multiport if you want, but you will need to have bushings or some kind of adapter to get from 2" to 1.5". You are going to have to do that either at the multiport or at the pump and filter. Depending on which way you choose, the pipe would be either 1.5" or 2". It won't make a hill of beans worth of difference which size pipe you use there. You will also need an adapter of some sort between the pump and the suction side piping to get from 1.5" to 2".

    If you have a cartridge filter, you do not need the multiport. When I replaced my equipment, I plumbed it so I have a tee between the pump and the filter. And I use two ball valves; one goes to the filter, and the other goes to waste. There is no need for backwash on a cartridge filter. All my pad piping is 2", and I have bushings to adapt to the 1.5" piping that is underground. That was an easy choice for me because all my new equipment was made for 2" pipe.

    Don't worry about your underground pipe size. It is big enough for your flow needs. With 1.5" pipe, that Tristar VS will put out around 70 to 75 GPM with about 90 feet of head. That is more flow than you will need. At half speed it will put out around 35-40 GPM with about 22 feet of head. That is still likely to be more flow than you need for your pool, but you will have to experiment to see how low you can go and still get skimming action. You do not need to turn your pool over in 8 hours unless it is a commercial pool. In fact, you don't need to turn it over in one day. Read the article in Pool School on Pump Run Time and this article.

    By the way, my flow estimates are based by superimposing the Tristar pump curve and the plumbing "curve A," which corresponds with typical 1.5" piping.

    Like Tom, I also have a cartridge filter, and I am very pleased with my water quality (except when the cottonwood trees give off cotton faster than can be skimmed).
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    ok...I'm going with the C7030, combining it with the Tristar VS. Both of which is made for 2" piping.

    I will get as much pipe as I can (the visible stuff) switched to 2". The multiport will be removed. I will try and get it plumbed so I have a tee between the pump and the filter with the 2 ball valves -- one to the filter, and the other to waste. I will have the pool company install bushings to adapt to the 1.5" piping that is underground.


    What do you mean by "pad piping"? I want to be able to get the pool company to do what you think I need-but I'm not familiar with this term.
    Tri-level, IG vinyl, 18'x42' with 18'x20' "L", 58,000 gallons. Loop-loc liner, SWG Hayward AquaPlus PL-4 with (2) 40k cells, Inter-Fab Adrenaline left turn slide. Hayward Tristar VS, Hayward C7030 (8 cartridges!). Novice pool owner!

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    By "pad" piping I mean the pipe that is connecting the equipment on the equipment pad. On my system I used reducing bushings where the pipe came out of the ground, and everything connecting the equipment is 2".

    By the way, if you were talking a brand new pool, it would make sense to have all 2" or larger pipe as Patrick has suggested. I just don't think it would be worth it to dig up and replace what is already there.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    Re: Which filter on a 50,000 gallon pool?

    I agree with Sargent I was meaning just as much as possible above ground or easily accessible underground near equipment.


    Thank You
    Patrick
    www.inyopools.com

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