Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35

Thread: Still really confused...

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Still really confused...

    So I started this original thread which has the products I am using and some background:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...igh-what-to-do

    I ended up having to leave out of the country for a couple weeks. I re-tested things today, but I still feel sort of lost/confused. I talked to two different pool companies and getting a lot of differing answers

    Here's my results from today (note that it also rained fairly hard today for whatever difference that can make(:

    FC = 1.0ppm
    CC = 1.0ppm
    pH = 8.0 (Took 2 drops to get to a 7.6)
    TA = 100
    CH = 330
    CYA= 80

    These are the main questions I still have some sort of confusion with:

    • What do I need to do normalize everything?
    • How can I figure out my pool gallon size accurately enough to do chemicals correctly?
    • Ideally, how are chlorine, pH, ALK and CH adjusted up or down?
    • When I test weekly, what exact tests should I be doing? Both pool companies said I do not need to test for CYA.
    • Should I be using chlorine tablets?
      • If so, I have these questions:
        • How many do I need to put in at a time? One company told me 4. The other told me 2. On here I was told none. This is very confusing.
        • Do I just replace them once a week, or replace when they are dissolved?
        • One pool guy told me I should be taking the tablets out when the filter is not running. That is very manual obviously, should I just be running the filter 24h instead?
    • How often do I need to "shock" the pool? By "shock", I mean using this product which I have (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051BI6UE/)?
    • How much shock do I use, and does that vary? If it varies, how do I know how much to use?


    As a reminder, I have the following products which I was going to use:

    Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BGF7TI/
    Chlorine Tablets: In The Swim 3 Inch Pool Chlorine Tablets - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WKJ5R0/
    Shock: Doheny's Super Shock Calcium Hypochlorite - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051BI6UE/
    pH Increaser: Pool Basics 2205PB - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BOLHO4O/
    Alkalinity Increaser: In The Swim Alkalinity Increaser - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WKF9CA/

    Here's a few pictures of my setup:

    setup-1.jpg

    setup-2.jpg

    motor.jpg
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: Still really confused...

    Hello callmedpit!

    I see you feel overwhelmed. You need chlorine and you should use liquid because your CYA is very high at 80ppm right now. The pucks have CYA in them and it is very important to know and monitor how much CYA you have and that is why you were told by members here not to use pucks. So you need chlorine and the next best source is liquid. I suggest you stock up on some unscented bleach and keep it in a cool dark place like a cellar or something.

    I would like to suggest to you some very important links in Pool School. They are educational and will help you understand your pool more.

    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    How to Chlorinate Your Pool
    Chlorine CYA Chart
    Recommended Levels
    SLAMing Your Pool
    PoolMath

    You can use Pool Math to figure out how many gallons are in your pool by adding the lengthxwidthxdepth.

    These links will provide you with the answers you so desperately seek but you must be willing to learn the TFPC way. You can't mix both TFPC and Pool Store ways because it is terribly confusing. Please, post any questions you have after reading the links I have provided for you.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  3. Back To Top    #3
    svenpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    835

    Re: Still really confused...

    First off, let me say that you have a beautiful pool.

    I think many of these questions have been answered in your other thread. Please keep all related questions in the same thread so people can follow the history of what has already been discussed.

    People usually come to TFP after following pool store advice and yet always having issues. If you come here for advice and then go to a pool store for advice you are going to get nowhere.

    The relationship between CYA and FC is well known and documented. Your CYA is already too high. If you continue to use tablets it will continue to rise, and inevitability you will begin having problems.

    I strongly recommend that you go back and do some reading in Pool School, drop the pucks, lower your CYA, SLAM your pool and get over the weekly shock mentality.


    Quote Originally Posted by callmedpit View Post
    When I test weekly, what exact tests should I be doing? Both pool companies said I do not need to test for CYA.
    Check out Basic Pool Care Schedule. Weekly is not frequently enough to be testing. Especially when you are just beginning or if you are having problems.

    Also check out the links that Casey listed.
    TFP Method Advanced Intermediate
    • 17,500 gallons - In Ground - Plaster - Hayward Swimclear 3020 Cartridge Filter - Sta-Rite Max-E-Glas Main Pump upgraded with A.O. Smith B2980 E-Plus New Centurion Two-Speed Motor - Polaris 280 Cleaner with Polaris PB4-60 Booster Pump - TightWatt2 Timer - Taylor K-2006 Test Kit - Pool Pilot Digital Nano SWCG

    Helpful Links: Pool School, BBB for Beginners, How to Shock (hint...it's a process not a product), Chlorine/CYA Chart, Jason's Pool Calculator

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    Thanks for the responses guys, I don't know why it didn't really click before, but now I realize the method here is different from a pool store.

    So I need to SLAM in order to bring my CC down below 0.5. I will switch to using liquid bleach. I also need to lower my pH, which I will do with the dry acid, before SLAMing.

    I do have a few followup questions:

    1. Since I have to lower my pH before I SLAM..how long do I need to wait for results? Can I test for pH again right after adding chemicals?
    2. When I am SLAMing, is it still safe to swim? We have people coming over this weekend and would like to use the pool. If I cannot swim after SLAMing, is it safe to swim with the results I have as is (original post) and then start the normalization process on Monday?
    3. I am trying to reach out to the company who built my pool to find out exactly how many gallons of water there is. If I just do dimensions (3ft shallow, 8ft deep, 16x32), it averages out to 5.5ft, which gives me 21,100 gallons. But the shallow end goes to about halfway though the pool, so if the average depth is really 5ft, that brings me under 20,000 gallons. So with all that said, the calculations for the number of chemicals change between the options...is there enough variance to make a big difference, or what should I do if I can't get the accurate number?
    4. It sounds like there is no benefit to using anything outside of bleach...outside of it maybe being heavy. So why do pool companies not use it? Is it literally so they can make more money? Or because of convenience?
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: Still really confused...

    If you are not opposed to draining some water, I would do so. The CYA is high and you will have to haul and add less chlorine bleach with a lower CYA level.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey View Post
    If you are not opposed to draining some water, I would do so. The CYA is high and you will have to haul and add less chlorine bleach with a lower CYA level.
    For now I will just keep it as is.

    Should I decide to drain at some point, do I literally just use a submersion pump and then a garden hose to refill? According to PoolMath, I would need to drain 50% of the water...
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: Still really confused...

    Yes. You will need to refer to the FC/ CYA chart for your SLAM level. You , must maintain the SLAM FC LEVEL or you will essentially waste the chlorine.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  8. Back To Top    #8
    bridgman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bowmanville, ON Canada
    Posts
    461

    Re: Still really confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by callmedpit View Post
    It sounds like there is no benefit to using anything outside of bleach...outside of it maybe being heavy. So why do pool companies not use it? Is it literally so they can make more money? Or because of convenience?
    Two part answer, I think...

    1. From a supply chain perspective, liquid chlorine is a pain -- not only heavy and low selling price per pound but the shelf life is sufficiently short that it has to be considered. Dichlor and trichlor are lighter to ship and have a sufficiently long shelf life that they don't need to worry about it.

    2. Possibly because of (1), the training and national standards seem to downplay the relationship between CYA and FC, so the benefits of liquid chlorine (no CYA or CH) are under-valued.
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    I am thinking about draining half the pool on Monday and refilling to bring the CYA down. If I do that, it doesn't make sense to waste pH down or bleach until I refill.

    Do you think with my numbers listed in my first post, it's ok for swimming in this weekend?
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Still really confused...

    Your FC level was/is significantly too low, with CYA at 80 it should be between 6 and 11 and never below 6.

    Everything else looked manageable.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11


    TFP Guide

    kcindc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    1,272

    Re: Still really confused...

    It is up to you if you want to bring down your PH now. If you swim, you might want to bring it down some so that it is more comfortable for swimmers, otherwise, it can wait until after you fill. If your fill water is similar to mine (I'm in northern virginia), your pool PH will be closer to recommended levels after your refill.

    In the future, you can save a ton of money by using the following products:
    Liquid Chlorine - Wal-Mart generic plain 8.25% or Costco's Chlorox
    Raise TA - Use baking soda instead of Alkalinity UP. You can buy this in a bulk package from Wal-Mart, at times my Costco carries it too.
    Raise PH - Aerate it's free (point eyeballs to surface of water) or use borax instead of PH UP. I can only find borax at Wal-Mart, but I hear some grocery stores sell it.
    Lower TA or PH: Use liquid muratic acid (MA) instead of dry acid to bring down PH or to bring down TA. I was afraid if using liquid MA, but I'm very careful, but no longer afraid to use it when necessary. I got my MA at home depot.

    There is a lot of information to take in, but it will sink in little by little and you will have a sparkly pool all season and your wallet will thank you.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    SW, MO
    Posts
    58

    Re: Still really confused...

    It's not safe to swim until you get your chlorine up to a safe level. You can't just skip chlorine until Monday and use the pool this weekend. Pools need to be constantly sanitized. You risk making someone very ill if you don't use chlorine and you risk your water going bad fast. Just keep your chlorine at maintenance levels so you can safely use it this weekend. Then you can worry about the drain on Monday as planned.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    Thanks for the responses everybody! Very helpful. I'm excited to drain/refill on Monday and start over with the TFPC method!
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    By the way, in Pool School, it doesn't specify how to correctly add the ingredients into the pool. So I will be adding in 2 gallons of bleach for this weekend to bring FC to about 10.5...but I don't know the correct way to add it into the pool. Is there an article I'm missing?
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  15. Back To Top    #15
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Still really confused...

    Pour bleach slowly in front of a return jet with the pump running.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16
    bridgman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Bowmanville, ON Canada
    Posts
    461

    Re: Still really confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by callmedpit View Post
    Should I decide to drain at some point, do I literally just use a submersion pump and then a garden hose to refill? According to PoolMath, I would need to drain 50% of the water...
    If you need to pump the water "uphill" then yes, something like a submersible pump makes it easy.

    If you can drain to a spot "below" the pool water level then you can siphon it out -- just fill a hose with water, close off the ends somehow (eg screwing on a trigger-grip nozzle that closes if you don't squeeze it and kinking the other end) then drag one end to where you want the water to go and release both ends to let the water flow out.
    Cedar hot tub, 680 US gallons - Snorkel wood-burning heater, canoe paddle, "offline" Intex 1000 GPH pump/filter with skimmer

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    10,157

    Re: Still really confused...

    Pour the bleach slowly over the return, usually pencil thick. Bleach is heavier than water and that's why it's poured slowly. Don't want to dump it fast and have it lay in one spot!
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    So I am in the process of draining about 50% of the pool to reduce the CYA. Had some questions regarding this though. To drain the pool I just siphoned from a garden hose, but it's taking a lot of time of course.

    If I drain the pool instead using the backwash functionality of my DE filter, do I still need to do the process of adding DE (aka a backwash)? If so, should I do that when I fill the pool back up with water? Since I had combined chlorine before, I assume I will have some after the refill. Will I need to SLAM once the pool is filled back? Or only if there is still above 0.5ppm of CC? Anything else that I should be doing during this process besides normalizing any chemicals?
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Divin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Longview, Texas
    Posts
    4,926

    Re: Still really confused...

    Hi,
    On the DE question = No. You only need to replace DE if you backwash it out.

    You will probably still have some CC's when you are filled back up.
    Use your test kit to measure it. If its 1 or greater, then you need to SLAM it. If its .5, see below.

    There are 3 criteria for slamming the pool.
    1. If the water is not clear
    2. If the CC is too high 1 or higher. if it's .5, you may be ok as long as the other 2 are good.
    3. if you fail the OCLT (overnight chlorine loss test).
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...loss-test-oclt

    I hope this helps
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Millersville, MD
    Posts
    46

    Re: Still really confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    On the DE question = No. You only need to replace DE if you backwash it out.
    Thanks for the quick response. I have yet to need to backwash my system (this is my first time opening a pool). By me draining the pool through setting the lever to backwash, isn't that theoretically doing the same thing as a normal backwash? Should I be setting the lever to something else to drain the pool?
    ~21,000 gal, IG Vinyl w/Liner, Hayward Pro-Grid DE2420 DE filter, Built: ~2002, manual vacuum, K-2006 Test Kit

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •