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Thread: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

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    water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Cleaned my buddies cartridge filter today, operated the system and open air valve for approx. 1 hr. I get no water flow from top of filter housing, just air. zero psi when air valve open, that's normal but when I close it I get good flow back at the returns and I get 10 psi at the gauge. It was 30 psi and very dirty before I cleaned it.

    My question is it OK not to get water flow out of top when open? I guess the water is not reaching top of filter housing. But, like I mention above that I am getting good flow back at the pool, with no bubbles at the returns.


    Picture below with valve open after 1hr, just air no water.



    Picture below with pool running normal configuration, air valve closed.
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Eventually, you should be able to purge all the air out of the filter unless the pump is drawing in a lot air. Is the pump basket, full of air or completely full of water.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Eventually, you should be able to purge all the air out of the filter unless the pump is drawing in a lot air. Is the pump basket, full of air or completely full of water.
    The pump is full of water and good flow from the pool returns.
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Wondering if the air bleed tube got reinstalled properly? Rule of thumb: the last thing you worked on is the first thing that breaks.
    http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/System3SMOM.pdf parts 8 & 9 page 10.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Richard, since you brought it up about the air tube. The air tube inside? It is a long tube from bottom to top with a small mesh screen on top. Is that somehow going to fit inside the air valve?
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
    Richard, since you brought it up about the air tube. The air tube inside? It is a long tube from bottom to top with a small mesh screen on top. Is that somehow going to fit inside the air valve?
    I don't know. But I know you have to put it back right on a DE filter.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    The only reason I can see that the tube exists is, when enough air is introduced into the chamber that the water level gets lower than that little-screen-thing-a-ma-bob, air is then fed directly to the output of the filter which prevents the filter chamber from completely filling with air. It essentially only allows a limited amount of air build up. I think the more air you have in the chamber, the more "explosive" the decompression on shutdown and potential damage to pipes and seals. I'm not sure how the tube could cause your problem.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Shoot, I guess after work I need to reopen the top of filter and take a look. Maybe that air tube & air filter is clogged. I don't know what that is used for, because it's tide in with the inlet portion of the plumbing. This time I will take a picture of the inside and post. I'll also make sure the air valve itself is not totally clogged, but I am getting air out during operation

    I hope the pump is not going bad, maybe it is not pumping enough water to top of filter housing! Wish I would of check for water flow top of filter housing before I took it apart, it might of always been like that.
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin View Post
    The only reason I can see that the tube exists is, when enough air is introduced into the chamber that the water level gets lower than that little-screen-thing-a-ma-bob, air is then fed directly to the output of the filter which prevents the filter chamber from completely filling with air. It essentially only allows a limited amount of air build up. I think the more air you have in the chamber, the more "explosive" the decompression on shutdown and potential damage to pipes and seals. I'm not sure how the tube could cause your problem.
    That's correct. The tube is for auto air purging but if working properly, it should reduce the air in the filter.

    Somehow the filter keeps refilling with air. That is the problem. If the flow rate was reduced considerably, that might explain why the air remains in the filter but then I would not expect 10 PSI at the filter either. It is probably worth taking apart the filter to see if anything is out of place.

    Also check the pump inlet for any collection of debris in the impeller.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    "Also check the pump inlet for any collection of debris in the impeller."

    A person at work thought maybe the impeller is clogged, he thought I should get more around 20 psi not 10. He said with a lot of trees and all those small black seeds collected that I found while cleaning the filter, it is probably all over the impeller. Maybe if I have time, I will get a o-ring kit from Leslie's and go in the pump.
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    OK, Started troubleshooting the filter today after work. I have it fixed
    Pictures tells the story.

    Took filter assy. apart again to check any bad installations. Found everything normal, so I thought I would do a flow check going into the filter bowl. Flow check good




    Installed filter assy again and removed the air bleeder assy.




    We have flow




    Found alot of trash inside air bleeder, good flow Granddaughter giving me the sign for, "good job popi"




    Granddaughter enjoying the sunset near buddies pool. I think she is happy that I'm finially done with friends pool.




    Final test results.

    water temp: 80
    FC: 7.5
    CC: 0.5
    PH: 7.4
    TA: 80
    CH: 180
    CYA: 55
    CSI: -0.38

    The only thing I might recommend, if PH stables at 7.4 - 7.5. Raise the CH to 250 - 300. So CSI will be in the middle band, -0.38 CSI says,"potential to become corrosive to plaster". But I might let the pool settle and see what happens next month before adding Calcium.
    14,000 gallon IG DiamondBrite pool with 2 ea. waterfalls and slide, Hayward Tristar 2.0 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward 3/4 HP waterfeature booster pump, Hayward 48sf DE filter, Hayward PS4 wireless controller, 1 skimmer and 4 returns, Polaris 280 pressure cleaner w/booster pump, 7 x 7 spa w/6 jets, TF-100 Test Kit w/speed stir

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: water not flowing from air release (Cartridge Filter)

    Great! Glad it's working. That's a nice geyser.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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